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    I was thinking maybe to mill off much rear portion and drilling or cutting slots in the rest of the cstg to lighten it up while keeping the bearing supported. I think by doing all that it could become a bolt on accessory.



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    Here's an idea I've been working on for some time now. It is based on an alum. thin wall tube held together by four 1/4-20 threaded rods grooved to fit up in a 2x2x1 bliock at each end carrying the bearings. One end has the collet and the other a sheave. I also think it could be water cooled by adding some fittings and silicone gasketing, or just filled with oil. Any comments or ideas to improve it?

    Attached Files Attached Files


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    Quote Originally Posted by SPEEDRE
    Here's an idea I've been working on for some time now. It is based on an alum. thin wall tube held together by four 1/4-20 threaded rods grooved to fit up in a 2x2x1 bliock at each end carrying the bearings. One end has the collet and the other a sheave. I also think it could be water cooled by adding some fittings and silicone gasketing, or just filled with oil. Any comments or ideas to improve it?
    Hi SPEEDRE,

    I couldn''t open your Autocad file till I converted it. I will attach it here for others to see.

    What is the target rpm range for your spindle?

    What style and size of collet?

    I have never seen a design like this. I am no expert but I believe thin wall would not be rigid enough and the ends would be free to twist due to torque from the milling cutter.

    Mike

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Spindle Idea-spindle-1-jpg  
    Last edited by MikeAber; 06-27-2005 at 08:51 PM. Reason: The bitmap is way too small Convert to JPEG
    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  4. #64
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    Question R8 Mini-Mill Spindle Mods

    Hi everyone,

    I am working on a mini-mill R8 spindle idea. I really like R8 tooling as I have a lot of it.

    I wonder how much interest there is in a series of upgrades to the mini-mill spindle.This concept has been around in many other threads and many have pushed the limits allready.

    Bearings, what is installed and what is available. What is the cost for speed? Is 15,000 rpm possible with a wet bearing system?
    What about the gear drive system? are metal gears available, do they work better? Can the gears be reconfigured for a higher range of speeds?
    Housings for attachment to a gantry style mill or vertical bench mill.
    Can we install a larger and/or faster motor?
    Using a DC motor around 1-2 horsepower and a motor controller to provide variable speeds with Spindle and Speed control in Mach2/3.

    This will not be a spend as much money as you can approach.

    I want to keep the Do It Yourself concept, and a team effort.

    All of the projects based upon the R8 Mini-Mill housing ($99.95) or Mini-Mill Spindle ($49.95).

    I anticipate this as a long term series of projects.

    Or should there be a new thread or forum for the Mini-Mill spindle project?

    Has all of this allready ben done?

    What do you think!

    MikeAber

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Quote Originally Posted by SPEEDRE
    I was thinking maybe to mill off much rear portion and drilling or cutting slots in the rest of the cstg to lighten it up while keeping the bearing supported. I think by doing all that it could become a bolt on accessory.
    I am all for the bolt on accessory part.

    I disassembled my housing over the weekend and did a bunch of research on bearings and read a lot of threads trying to find out what has been done in the past.

    Mike

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  6. #66
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    I do want to ellaborate on my drawings, but dont want to hijaak this thread

    Pablo



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    Yeah, we need some pics. JRogue designed and build his own spindle.....perhaps he will chime in with his thread....I'd go searching for it...but I'm feeling a bit lazy.



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    Here's the thread: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7004. There's some really good info there contributed by many.

    JR



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    Exclamation Spindle Idea Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by peu
    I do want to ellaborate on my drawings, but dont want to hijaak this thread

    Pablo
    Pablo,

    Please tell us about your spindle idea and elaborate about your drawings!

    Mike

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Thumbs up Spindle Proposal Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by JRoque
    Here's the thread: http://<b>http://www.cnczone.com/for...php?t=7004</b>. There's some really good info there contributed by many.

    JR
    I highly recommend anyone interested in Spindle Ideas also subscribe to and read this thread! JRoge's spindle project is an excellent example of what can be done from the grass roots level up. Great work JR! I look forward to more of your great Ideas and future projects.

    MikeAber

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Some notes on my spindle concept. It could be mounted to the z carriage at both the top and bottom bearing blocks hopefully countering any torque twists. Target rpm range for my applications. I'd be cutting alum. 6061 t no thicker than .250 and HPDE or PTEG plastics at max .125, about 10k I think will be fast enough. I am hoping to use a small motor and keep it as quiet as possible.



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    Hi Speedre,

    I think your concept is doable for the uses you describe. I am not sure you gain anything by using thin wall tubing. It seems to me that making two bearing blocks and designing a method to attach the thin wall tubing would be more difficult than making the spindle housing from a solid piece of material.
    Any ideas on tool size and attachment method?

    10,000 rpm should be easy for bearings 25mm and smaller depending on type and preload.

    The bearings you list in your drawing are 8,000 rpm bearings these are the same size with a 15,000 rpm limit.

    52mm is larger than 2", you may want to revise the bearing size or the the bearing housing size.


    VXB Ball Bearings > Angular Contact Ball Bearings > 2 Ball Bearing 7205B 25x52x15 Chrome Steel - Spindle - Single Row Angular Contact
    2 Ball Bearing 7205B 25x52x15 Chrome Steel - Spindle - Single Row Angular Contact


    Quantity in Basket: none
    Code: Kit1088
    Price:$24.95

    Shipping Weight: 0.75 pounds

    Static Load (LBF): 1957.5
    Dynamic Load (LBF): 3150
    Limiting Speed (RPM): 15000
    Closures: OPEN
    Cage/Retainer: NYLON
    Lubricant: OIL
    Balls/Rollers: CHROME STEEL
    Bearing Material: CHROME STEEL
    Width (mm): 15
    Outer Diameter (mm): 52
    inner Diameter (mm): 25




    Mike

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Spindle Idea-kit1084-1-jpg  
    Last edited by MikeAber; 06-30-2005 at 05:14 PM.
    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  13. #73
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    Default Spindle Idea

    BTW The VXB angular contact bearings are not ABEC7 bearings. The same size set of ABEC7 angular contact bearings start at $206.49 a matched pair.

    Mike

    Last edited by MikeAber; 06-30-2005 at 05:39 PM.
    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  14. #74
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    Well ABEC7 specifies certain items usually related to tolerances (either mechanical and or temperature)....you can get ABEC7 bearing for many purposes....skateboards, skates, spindle bearings, etc.



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    More thoughts on my spindle idea. The thin wall tube is only a wieght saver, I could go to a thicker wall. I calculate the id to be .811 so some modification is in order. I was thinking maybe a collet to accept those ER styles, or a wood router type with collet reducer sleeves. I would think, that for my uses, those bearings will do nicely. By reworking the mounts I could compensate for torque twist also . Oh by BTW what is preload reffering to?



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    Arrow Spindle Idea

    Speedre,

    This is an article by BARDEN Bearings UK that explains the subject of preload better than anything else I have found. http://www.bardenbearings.co.uk/index.cfm?articleid=717

    If you are using the bearing listed on your drawing the preload is fixed or if you use the set I listed, they are allready preset to light preload in a DB configuration (back to back) unless you desire to increase the loading, which is not necessary for the applications you stated. Basically, the more you "preload" (axial pressure between inner and outer races) the bearings to limit runout under load, the lower the speed rating due to the extra heat caused by the increased friction.
    "DB mounting is suited for most applications having good alignment of bearing housings and shafts. It is also preferable where high moment rigidity is required, and where the shaft runs warmer than the housing."

    The vxb bearings are really cheap, however, for the purposes of building a DIY spindle for the first time they seem adequate and light years ahead of the mini mill spindle bearing design.

    Hope this helps.

    Mike

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Spindle Idea-db-mounting-jpg   Spindle Idea-axial-adjustment-jpg   Spindle Idea-different-types-spring-preloading-jpg  
    Last edited by MikeAber; 07-02-2005 at 02:11 PM.
    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  17. #77
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    Default R8 Mini-Mill Spindle Idea

    I would like to note that this concept has been in the back of my mind ever since I received a Little Machine Shop Catalog about a year ago. I must give credit to Speedre for providing the spark of interest to get me started on it.
    __________________________________________________ _______________

    I had a few hours to work in the hobby shop today and started my mods to the little mini mill spindle housing for use on my mini gantry mill.

    I cut off the housing shorter to reduce some of the weight and make it more compact. I was going to make a new housing out of FORTAL until I discovered that it would weigh about the same.

    I drilled and tapped four holes to mount the housing on a dovetail spindle mount, then took a cleanup cut on all six sides with a 3" carbide face mill. After removing sharp edges and cleaning I painted it.

    Mike

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Spindle Idea-1906-jpg   Spindle Idea-mini-mill-housing-1-jpg   Spindle Idea-mini-mill-housing-2-jpg   Spindle Idea-mini-mill-housing-3-jpg  

    Last edited by MikeAber; 07-03-2005 at 02:52 AM. Reason: Add a little history.
    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Hey Mike, this is what I was after when I first posted on this thread. This is where I want to be. I have a mini mill that I've never even started up except to see if it ran. I think I'll watch what you do and follow suit. I want this type spindle, have tooling to match, would hate to retool just for a spindle.lol Thanks keep the pics comming, I'd hate to make it wrong, lol lol



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    Default R8 Mini-Mill Spindle Idea

    While the paint is drying and I am doing a little catalog searching for drive belt and pulley ideas let me run thru some of the conclusions I have come to about the bearings and spindle that come with the Mini-Mill housing assembly.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________________________
    The bearings and spindle were difficult to get out of the housing to say the least. Both bearings are press-fit onto the spindle from opposite ends of the housing. Pounding the spindle out of the housing with a big hammer is inviting the hoard to ask "What's in Your Wallet?" You must use a press and a soft metal drift if needed to encourage a bearing race to move occasionally. Do not use a hard hammer on anything. Use a dead blow hammer or mallet with a soft face and do not pound on the inside race to get the bearing in or out of the housing. Doing so will invite the hoard again.

    The top bearing number in my assembly was a 6206ZZ. This is a single row deep groove ball bearing with a 30mm id x 62mm od 16mm wide with two metal shields. A 10,000 rpm bearing filled with grease. The bottom bearing number in my assembly was a 6007 2RS a single row deep groove ball bearing with a 35mm id x 62mm od 14mm wide with 2 rubber shields. A 6,500 rpm bearing filled with grease.
    Both of these bearings were available at VXB Bearings (VXB.com or VXB store on ebay) and I ordered two spare sets. The 6206 2RS sells for $1.99 each and the 6007 2RS is $4.99 for a pair.

    I did find several other bearing vendors with the same size bearings that had higher rpm limits of 12,000 (6206 2RS) and 11,000 (6007 2RS) for about $12.00 each. I could not find any angular contact bearings to replace the 35mm bottom bearing in the same outside diameter (62mm) and none of the angular contact single row bearings I found were available with seals.

    More research - more questions - and a conclusion. The bearings in both of my gearhead mills and the Grizzly mills are all single row deep groove ball bearings with 30 and 35mm id's. It appears to me that most benchtop R8 spindle machines do not use angular contact ball bearings. Conclusion - The R8 Mini Mill spindle does not need angular contact bearings.

    These 30 and 35mm bearings are huge compared to bearings in even the best routers and rotary tools. Unfortunately the bearing mounting configuration used on this spindle does not provide for any control of preload on the bearings. Basically what the factory did is what you get. If the inner races are pressed on too tightly or you push the rpm up higher and the bearings get hot there will be too much preload leading to bearing failure. If there is too little preload the spindle will have too much runout leading to poor finishes and broken cutting tools.

    I want both the ability to run the spindle with heavy preload when I am making heavy cuts at low spindle speeds and light or nearly no preload when I want to make light cuts at 6,000 rpm in wood or plastic. This can be accomplished by modifying the spindle to allow the top 30mm bearing to slide on the spindle and adding belleville spring washers between the top bearing inside race and the spindle nut on top of the spindle.

    The turning tools used to reduce the press-fit .0015 oversize tolerance to a slip-fit are 320 grit and 500 grit silicon carbide paper, a 1/2" square turning tool blank and some time. Do not wrap the paper around the turning tool. Use one thickness between the blank and the spindle. Hold the turning tool and paper parallel to the spindle while turning the spindle in your lathe at about 1000 rpm. Pressing hard is not necessary or desired. A little more pressure on the threaded end of the spindle will get the taper started. Go slow, test and measure the fit often. It won't take much time to go from barely getting the bearing started to a slip-fit. I learned this process of turning precision diameters from Swede's 5Bears website CNC Bench Mill project. Thanks Swede!

    Use the silicon carbide paper and tool blank to produce a small taper toward the threaded end of the 30mm step on the spindle, .0005" taper or less. The mic is reading 1.180". This will make it much easier to start the bearing on the spindle shaft.

    This is where the bearing will ride on the spindle shaft. We want a slip-fit here - you should be able to push the bearing on the shaft by hand to this point and no farther -. The mic is reading 1.1805".

    The bearing is where it normally will operate. I polished the larger 35mm step just a little on the right edge to make installation of the bearing easier.

    Look at the bearing and the spacer with the adjusting nut in place. The area between the spacer and the bearing is where we will install a belleville washer stack to control bearing preload.

    When I want to make heavy cuts at slow spindle speeds I tighten the spindle nut and preload is increased. When I want high speed I loosen the spindle nut for little or no preload. If I set the preload somewhere in the middle of the range I get automatic adjustment for thermal cycles of the spindle and bearings.

    More Pictures in my photo gallery. http://www.cnczone.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=9016

    MikeAber

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Spindle Idea-little-machine-shop-part-1944-jpg   Spindle Idea-spindle-turning-tools-jpg   Spindle Idea-r8-mini-mill-spindle-1-jpg   Spindle Idea-r8-mini-mill-spindle-2-jpg  

    Spindle Idea-r8-mini-mill-spindle-3-jpg   Spindle Idea-r8-mini-mill-spindle-4-jpg   Spindle Idea-r8-spindle-housing-1-jpg   Spindle Idea-r8-spindle-housing-2-jpg  

    Spindle Idea-r8-spindle-housing-3-jpg  
    Last edited by MikeAber; 07-03-2005 at 01:47 PM.
    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Mike, What machine is this spindle going on? I will suggest you not use v-belts to drive this but something along the lines of GT2 timing belts. I am currently using GT2 timing belts for 3000rpm and its not really loud, it keeps cool and seems to do a good job. Just make sure to have at least one of them with a flange so the belt doesnt ride up or down.

    Jon



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