Need Help!- Fagor 8025 / GE MarkCenturyONE refit problem

[Odin M Yggdrasi]

Anyway, at work there is a Fagor 8025 CNC controller connected to a refitted Pratt & Whitney Tri-Max XV milling machine. It lost it's battery and settings, and while I have already replaced the battery and recalculated most of the settings, it still doesn't run. According to the older employees at this company though, it was wired correctly and operated up until a few years ago when it's battery failed.

There aren't any errors shown, but whenever I put it into Jog mode it basically freezes up- not only does it not move, but it will not return to the operating mode menu unless I force it out of Jog by tripping the emergency stop.

In addition, this particular control seems to flatly refuse any and all input other than it's config data, including downloading by RS232 via DNC, direct program entry, and manual jog mode. Whenever I try to input to it, it freezes up.

It's been bugging me for a while now, especially because this afternoon I will be working on a General Electric MarkCentury ONE connected to a Bostomatic 312 mill with a second spindle and W Axis.

That one also has frozen up on entering Jog mode before and is in a similar state as the TriMax, also having lost it's batteries and settings. I've already replaced the batteries and approximated the settings again, though I need to get more fuses for it, apparently it got fuse-robbed during it's downtime and only two fuses in a bank of 12 are still present- likely the last two are the ones that power the controller. Three phase 480V powering it, there are four fuse banks for the four different axis on this machine, and right now only two are present- completing the phase to the control box I presume.

Is there a hidden setting somewhere to make these run again? Or am I just missing something obvious. Not only does the Fagor not accept axis-input instructions or commands to home or move, but it won't let me edit a program or recieve one via RS232 DNC.

And the General Electric I will be working on more this afternoon, it definately needs those fuses to work right but shouldn't be hanging like that.

[Al_The_Man]

I am not sure of the 8025, but with some Fagor, you are required to load in the PLC via RS232, the parameters of which are plugged in manually so you can download the PLC program if the batteries are lost.
Al.

[Odin M Yggdrasi]

Originally Posted by Al_The_Man I am not sure of the 8025, but with some Fagor, you are required to load in the PLC via RS232, the parameters of which are plugged in manually so you can download the PLC program if the batteries are lost. Al.

Would the PLC be affected if the main box lost it's battery backup?

This is a 8025 CNC controlling a three axis mill, using a PLC1 to manage the shifting and tool changer.

So far I have gotten all the error codes out of the CNC itself, but it will not accept manual input in any modes other than the parameter setting ones and refuses to move the axis- I figured the spindle would take more work to get going since I have to remap the solenoid pattern to the PLC.

In any case I did a bit more work on the GE today, that machine has electrical problems and I won't know if the hanging jog problem will appear until sometime next week when parts come in.

[Odin M Yggdrasi]

Bit of an update, I have gotten the GE MarkCentury ONE fully operating, it's cutting parts at this very moment.

Though the Fagor 8025 is stubbornly refusing to work still.
I did manage to get it to unjam, turns out there is a PLC64 in the system and once I told it that it stopped freezing up.

Fortunately the PLC program is still there, I am able to view it using the LAN function from the CNC.

However, it still is refusing to actually do anything, and I have no idea how to determine what settings should actually be in the CNC.

Also, I noticed in the manual program number 99998, and would have to write one for this. Any idea how the CNC knows when the marks are being sent and how to enter the message in the program so it displays?

[Fagor - Todd]

Originally Posted by Odin M Yggdrasi Anyway, at work there is a Fagor 8025 CNC controller connected to a refitted Pratt & Whitney Tri-Max XV milling machine. It lost it's battery and settings, and while I have already replaced the battery and recalculated most of the settings, it still doesn't run. According to the older employees at this company though, it was wired correctly and operated up until a few years ago when it's battery failed. There aren't any errors shown, but whenever I put it into Jog mode it basically freezes up- not only does it not move, but it will not return to the operating mode menu unless I force it out of Jog by tripping the emergency stop. In addition, this particular control seems to flatly refuse any and all input other than it's config data, including downloading by RS232 via DNC, direct program entry, and manual jog mode. Whenever I try to input to it, it freezes up. It's been bugging me for a while now, especially because this afternoon I will be working on a General Electric MarkCentury ONE connected to a Bostomatic 312 mill with a second spindle and W Axis. That one also has frozen up on entering Jog mode before and is in a similar state as the TriMax, also having lost it's batteries and settings. I've already replaced the batteries and approximated the settings again, though I need to get more fuses for it, apparently it got fuse-robbed during it's downtime and only two fuses in a bank of 12 are still present- likely the last two are the ones that power the controller. Three phase 480V powering it, there are four fuse banks for the four different axis on this machine, and right now only two are present- completing the phase to the control box I presume. Is there a hidden setting somewhere to make these run again? Or am I just missing something obvious. Not only does the Fagor not accept axis-input instructions or commands to home or move, but it won't let me edit a program or recieve one via RS232 DNC. And the General Electric I will be working on more this afternoon, it definately needs those fuses to work right but shouldn't be hanging like that.

Odin,

What you are trying to work on is a combination that was rarely sold back around 15-20 years ago. It is not my favorite set-up. But in reality, what it sounds like you have is a 8025 -i CNC, which has a built-in PLC, in addition, you have the stand alone PLC 64.... these communicated via a LAN utilizing the RS 485 port by utilizing an "Exchange of marks"

The first step you have to do is give yourself the ability to edit programs from the CNC.... which sounds like you are locked out. This is common after a battery failure.... the ram memory is lost and everything is scrambled including the hidden codes that can lock all of part program memory and then a seperate hidden code for parameters/plc. If you look in the "operating" manual you will find codes that are along the lines of "PKJIN" or "MKJIN" or "MKJIY" or "PKJIY" towards the beginning of the manual if I remember correctly. You need to enter in the PKJIN and MKJIN codes (IF this is a milling CNC, which means unlock parameter memory and unlock part program memory..... then you will be able to edit programs.

To get your CNC running will be just a series of very simply little things to do, those CNC's are actually extremely reliable.... the only thing that typically fails on them is the battery packs, which were simply limited by the state of battery technology at that time. (The old nicad battery packs will typically last 3-4 years, whereas the lithium battery packs will typically last 10-12 years before needing replaced)

For editing the stand alone PLC 64.... we had a seperate communication program for that called PLC64 sof or PLC30 at one time..... its an old DOS program and can be provided to you free of charge. (This is a different program than the DNC30 communication program) The integrated PLC in the 8025 can be edited directly from the CNC keyboard in the special modes -> PLC/LAN mode.

In any regards, if I was there, I could get your CNC running within an hour or two, but it would be too much for me to type here to troubleshoot. Tell me your general area and I will give you a phone number of an appropriate Fagor technician who can help you through this who was around 15-20 years ago and understands the particular system you are working on. (you're not in eastern Ohio/Western PA are you ?)

btw, if you just want to get it running without the tool changer, etc.... disconnect the RS 485 port by unplugging(For now)..... turn off the PLC 64..... Jumper 24vdc to Input 1 on the I/O 1 connector on the 8025 and then logically put a semicolin in front of the PLC code not necessary for all things except Emergency input/output and axes enabling and feedhold, which can all be jumpered high by logic from Input 1. If the axes enables were wired from the remote PLC 64, instead run them through any available outputs from the CNC. (They probably were anyway through typical PLC writing technique, you use the CNC outputs for the drive enables) Also in your PLC logic, close the limit switch logic.

The semicolon can be removed later, thus re-activating. I typically teach people to do one instruction set at a time later, but the first thing you want to do is close the servo loop and get the motors under control.

I hope this is at least kind of helpful.

Sincerely,
Todd

[Odin M Yggdrasi]

It doesn't have a as best I can tell, it isn't appearing in the devices menu for the Fagor LAN.

Though I found a few more of it's manuals and was able to get it going. At this very moment I am watching it take .020" off of a steel plate using a shell mill.

What it came down to was once I realized how to tell it that the PLC was present and get the Fagor LAN operating, all that was left was to read the PLC's code and figure out the corresponding M-codes. Still not certain if I have the correct return marks though.

Apparently the cause of the freeze-up and the lack of response was the axis-enable outputs were being handled by the PLC as well as the spindle shifting, forward and reverse, tool change, and managing the emergency stop.

I had also stumbled on the memory unlock codes and have it working fine again in that respect.

It was certainly an interesting day at least, I'd been working at this when production was ahead of schedule since my first post and finally yesterday I got it all going to cut again.

Though still no response from the tool changer, according to the other employees there was something wrong with that to begin with and it never worked right.

Really the big breakthrough came fro

[Fagor - Todd]

Odin,

Thats great news !! Sounds like you have learned quite a bit about that combination of control & plc.... now that I have an expert, I'm going to send my customers to you for help.

Anyway, I'm glad you've made progress.... let us know if we can help.

Sincerely,
Todd