Chinese "standalone" CNC controller


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    Default Chinese "standalone" CNC controller

    Is anything known about the "standalone" CNC controllers that are on ebay:

    Free Shipping CNC 4 Axis offline stand alone controller engraving CNC router | eBay

    I looked through a handful. Some appear to have a limit to the number of lines of Gcode. Some don't. Is anything known about these? Anyone with experience?

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    Default Re: Chinese "standalone" CNC controller

    I don't know if this is the one you are referring to, but here is a youtube video on a stand alone controller.





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    Forget all the "Stand Alone" titled Ebay controllers, and all those p.c. based controllers too. If you're liking to get a control try the Tomatech TAC-1003M control units. GSK and CNCMAKERS also make these type of affordable controllers that function just like industrial FANUC controls. Best $660 I spent in my life. I go to school and work where we use Fanuc type units and to come home and get to work on the same type of control I'm familiar with is the best. No changing up of processes during setup, machining, programming or proofing. WHY ARE WE STILL USING MACH3!!!! To have a reliable, predictable, affordable retrofitting experience, these type of controllers should really be considered. I don't represent any of these manufacturers, I'm just really happy with my purchase . One control product pretty much covered 95% of the complex components needed to communicate with a machine. Too much good to continue, Imma start a thread about this experience soon. JUST CHECK IT OUT. You won't be sorry.



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    Default Re: Chinese "standalone" CNC controller

    Unfortunately none of the units mentioned here have a Lathe Mode, so how will you do thread cutting with any of them. They seem to be useful for milling machines and routers only.
    I would be more interested in a dual purpose controller at these prices.



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    Quote Originally Posted by hoecken View Post
    Unfortunately none of the units mentioned here have a Lathe Mode, so how will you do thread cutting with any of them. They seem to be useful for milling machines and routers only.
    I would be more interested in a dual purpose controller at these prices.
    Tomatech does offer 2axis lathe units, and 3&4 axis for live tools. The latter is the only one I want. Check it out. For the price, you can't beat it. Over 389 parameters 70-120 K parameters and more, diagnosis screen, all the familiar Fanuc type screen formats. New, crazy cool for 600-700 bucks. You can spend that or more on buying the license for Mach3, motion card, any other in/output expansion boards, plus new(usb) or old(printer port) computer, monitor(if need), all the cords, plus any external buttons or keys you want..... Ect??? These kits come with all the cords you need for axis and spindle drives, encoder cord, mpg cord, 4 axis cords, and built in switching power. I switched to the 110v and wired a cord and it came on. Pretty much you build a box, plug in your existing drives and limit switchs along with vfd and your up and running. Set parameters and get the accuracy u need, and Make some chips. I DON'T KNOW how this unit will hold up for the next 5-10 years, but for now I'm good. Better than p.c. based stuff all-day. Just sayin.



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    Default Re: Chinese "standalone" CNC controller

    So you spend another $ 600.00 or so to have a controller for your lathe. Now you are at around $ 1300.00 plus shipping and before you know you are at $ 1500.00.



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    Quote Originally Posted by hoecken View Post
    So you spend another $ 600.00 or so to have a controller for your lathe. Now you are at around $ 1300.00 plus shipping and before you know you are at $ 1500.00.
    I don't know, I didn't like sharing one computer between 2 machines so I did 2 mach3 setups (mill and lathe) and after all the time, money and trouble shooting it's not worth it for sub-par results with lower precision and accuracy. The lathe units are $100-200(2 axis)cheaper than mill unit with free shipping from eBay. About $1000 for two machines with 1-2 days to build a box and set up for a system that is more reliable with a industrial format, I thought this would be a no brainer. If funds allow for it, I would do it. I've read countless threads on conversion and all of them are long strung out threads about issues one should not have to deal with if alternatives are available. Over 5-6 year old threads from people asking about, having and or fixing the same type of problems with forum support versus real customer service to help specific questions with the right answer the first time. In most cases we make all of our own CNC conversion parts from scratch and now we have options on the controller so we don't have to build it from scratch too. I mean building these controls can be more time and money consuming than the physical machining and installing of mounts, motors and sensor. Imma machinist and CNC programmer not an electrician and computer programmer. Too much effort for mach3 or Linux and if you want Mach4 or M4 industrial, you gotta pay again and who knows what new stuff you gotta trouble shoot and for how long before you hopefully get a reliable setup. Imma try to upload some footage along with pictures when I get home. Everyone should know about this.



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    Default Re: Chinese "standalone" CNC controller

    Quote Originally Posted by JKG1400 View Post
    I don't know, I didn't like sharing one computer between 2 machines so I did 2 mach3 setups (mill and lathe) and after all the time, money and trouble shooting it's not worth it for sub-par results with lower precision and accuracy. The lathe units are $100-200(2 axis)cheaper than mill unit with free shipping from eBay. About $1000 for two machines with 1-2 days to build a box and set up for a system that is more reliable with a industrial format, I thought this would be a no brainer. If funds allow for it, I would do it. I've read countless threads on conversion and all of them are long strung out threads about issues one should not have to deal with if alternatives are available. Over 5-6 year old threads from people asking about, having and or fixing the same type of problems with forum support versus real customer service to help specific questions with the right answer the first time. In most cases we make all of our own CNC conversion parts from scratch and now we have options on the controller so we don't have to build it from scratch too. I mean building these controls can be more time and money consuming than the physical machining and installing of mounts, motors and sensor. Imma machinist and CNC programmer not an electrician and computer programmer. Too much effort for mach3 or Linux and if you want Mach4 or M4 industrial, you gotta pay again and who knows what new stuff you gotta trouble shoot and for how long before you hopefully get a reliable setup. Imma try to upload some footage along with pictures when I get home. Everyone should know about this.
    If you like it that is fine, but $600 is a lot of money to some people. I use LinuxCNC (free) on a free computer and once the mechanicals were done it took me all of about 3 hours to completely set it up and it has been running flawlessly ever since. I can run it on a lathe, a mill, a 3 axis machine, a scara robot, or whatever I want up to 9 axes.

    The controller has very little to do with the precision and accuracy of a machine. So, talking this controller up like it can magically improve things is just plain fiction.

    Standalone controllers like that have proprietary firmware and hardware. When something goes wrong, you are screwed. I operate under the premise that something WILL go wrong. With that Tomatech controller there is virtually nothing you can do to fix a problem. At least with Mach or LinuxCNC you can do something about it. Where would you have to send it for service? China? How long would the turn-around for service take, and how much would it cost? You talk about professional customer service but have you had to have any from this company? Can you attest to the quality of their customer service. They are a Chinese company, do you need to speak Chinese to get service? How much was your phone bill for the customer service call to China? I went to their website homepage and clicked on the big customer service icon and got a "Site can't be reached" response. Not inspiring. I also went to there download section to download a manual to see what it has and the download link doesn't work.

    I do like the idea of a standalone controller like the Tomatech, but as a hobbyist, just cannot justify the expense given all of the unknowns.



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    Default Re: Chinese "standalone" CNC controller

    Quote Originally Posted by wastingtape View Post
    Is anything known about the "standalone" CNC controllers that are on ebay:

    Free Shipping CNC 4 Axis offline stand alone controller engraving CNC router | eBay

    I looked through a handful. Some appear to have a limit to the number of lines of Gcode. Some don't. Is anything known about these? Anyone with experience?
    I have looked at those in the past and have been intrigued. The cost is much lower than the Tomatech listed in this thread, and for one of my machines have actually had one in my e-bay cart. I didn't buy because of many of the issues I listed in my last post about the Tomatech, but at the lower price I may be willing to risk this much money. I have seen them as low as about $130, which is much more palatable. As was stated before, this would only be useful on a router or mill. The lack of lathe threading is a deal killer for lathe use for me. The main thing that has kept me from actually buying one is that there is very little information from end users on how well they perform and the limitations they have. I keep watching to see if more user reports come out. At some point I may actually buy one.



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    Quote Originally Posted by 109jb View Post
    If you like it that is fine, but $600 is a lot of money to some people. I use LinuxCNC (free) on a free computer and once the mechanicals were done it took me all of about 3 hours to completely set it up and it has been running flawlessly ever since. I can run it on a lathe, a mill, a 3 axis machine, a scara robot, or whatever I want up to 9 axes.

    The controller has very little to do with the precision and accuracy of a machine. So, talking this controller up like it can magically improve things is just plain fiction.

    Standalone controllers like that have proprietary firmware and hardware. When something goes wrong, you are screwed. I operate under the premise that something WILL go wrong. With that Tomatech controller there is virtually nothing you can do to fix a problem. At least with Mach or LinuxCNC you can do something about it. Where would you have to send it for service? China? How long would the turn-around for service take, and how much would it cost? You talk about professional customer service but have you had to have any from this company? Can you attest to the quality of their customer service. They are a Chinese company, do you need to speak Chinese to get service? How much was your phone bill for the customer service call to China? I went to their website homepage and clicked on the big customer service icon and got a "Site can't be reached" response. Not inspiring. I also went to there download section to download a manual to see what it has and the download link doesn't work.

    I do like the idea of a standalone controller like the Tomatech, but as a hobbyist, just cannot justify the expense given all of the unknowns.
    Don't know about Linux too much but a friend of mine tried it and said he had issues with it so he switched back to mach, I've only used mach3 so I can personally speak of that only. Basically without going into all the math and drawing it out, the pulse/ signal rates are faster and smoother and the overall higher hz rate is higher then all axis on mach3 combinded. I tried it with desktop and brand new laptop, mk4 motion cards, and other b.o.b.s, I've use Nema 23&34 stepper and hybrid servos, i ran 2010 screenset with touchprobe function. Don't get me wrong, you can make good parts with mach but when I run 100K-200K lines and walk away, I guess mine freezes and I have to hit cycle star to get it to continue. Along with too many versions and plugins with glitching on both computers I wanted to look for an alternate. I don't know alot about computer hardware logic or code stuff. I also own that DDCSV1 stand alone control off eBay and the backlash comp didn't work and it was metric only with no direct editing capability from the console, so I figured if Imma buy chinese off of eBay, then let me make a mid range purchase. That's all. Didn't mean to sound like a grifter or business rep, just excited about a CHEAP copy of higher priced Fanuc type control that I'm used to. As far as support, I mean emmediate email response on setting up parameters or verifying compatibility with other components and assistance with schematics. I pray nothing happens with the internals, and no I don't have anyone to fix it if it breaks but what the hey, let's try it out and if it works then great. But I have been holding +/-.001 easy and haven't really tweaked anything, all default and calibration variables necessary to get it working and slight backlash comp. Just saying, but whatever works for you is good to me. I'll try to post when I get back in town.



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    Quote Originally Posted by JKG1400 View Post
    Don't know about Linux too much but a friend of mine tried it and said he had issues with it so he switched back to mach, I've only used mach3 so I can personally speak of that only. Basically without going into all the math and drawing it out, the pulse/ signal rates are faster and smoother and the overall higher hz rate is higher then all axis on mach3 combinded. I tried it with desktop and brand new laptop, mk4 motion cards, and other b.o.b.s, I've use Nema 23&34 stepper and hybrid servos, i ran 2010 screenset with touchprobe function. Don't get me wrong, you can make good parts with mach but when I run 100K-200K lines and walk away, I guess mine freezes and I have to hit cycle star to get it to continue. Along with too many versions and plugins with glitching on both computers I wanted to look for an alternate. I don't know alot about computer hardware logic or code stuff. I also own that DDCSV1 stand alone control off eBay and the backlash comp didn't work and it was metric only with no direct editing capability from the console, so I figured if Imma buy chinese off of eBay, then let me make a mid range purchase. That's all. Didn't mean to sound like a grifter or business rep, just excited about a CHEAP copy of higher priced Fanuc type control that I'm used to. As far as support, I mean emmediate email response on setting up parameters or verifying compatibility with other components and assistance with schematics. I pray nothing happens with the internals, and no I don't have anyone to fix it if it breaks but what the hey, let's try it out and if it works then great. But I have been holding +/-.001 easy and haven't really tweaked anything, all default and calibration variables necessary to get it working and slight backlash comp. Just saying, but whatever works for you is good to me. I'll try to post when I get back in town.
    A guy named Kevin Lee helps me. He emailed me after my eBay purchase. Jus so you know.



  12. #12

    Default Re: Chinese "standalone" CNC controller

    JKG1400....I have a DDCSV1.1 here that I am working on right now. I should have it powered up for the first time this week. I don't have high hopes of it being the end all replacement for a FANUC, but I had to try something. I just could not bring myself to start the hassle of a PC based system.

    Please, start a another thread detailing your new control. Even if it is not installed yet. There are people out there that feel the same way you do about these controls but get easily overwhelmed with the sea of controllers on ebay and the likes. You sharing your experience will help with the movement to eliminate the pc based systems most are struggling with now. I'll oh up to the fact I bought the DDCSV1.1 because I found a post of a user running it on another forum and decided to take a chance on it. If I had known about the TAC I would have bought that. Even at 4 times the price of what I bought.

    I hate the fact we are having to turn to a CHINESE product to get what we need, but it seems they are the only ones who can see the market...no matter how small it might be.

    Rob

    P.S.
    Here's a quick pic of my control pendant and servo driver box.. That is a complete control that will be tethered to my electronics box by a shielded 37pin serial cable.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Chinese "standalone" CNC controller-pendant-copy-jpg   Chinese "standalone" CNC controller-box-jpg  


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    Quote Originally Posted by tinmancarving View Post
    JKG1400....I have a DDCSV1.1 here that I am working on right now. I should have it powered up for the first time this week. I don't have high hopes of it being the end all replacement for a FANUC, but I had to try something. I just could not bring myself to start the hassle of a PC based system.

    Please, start a another thread detailing your new control. Even if it is not installed yet. There are people out there that feel the same way you do about these controls but get easily overwhelmed with the sea of controllers on ebay and the likes. You sharing your experience will help with the movement to eliminate the pc based systems most are struggling with now. I'll oh up to the fact I bought the DDCSV1.1 because I found a post of a user running it on another forum and decided to take a chance on it. If I had known about the TAC I would have bought that. Even at 4 times the price of what I bought.

    I hate the fact we are having to turn to a CHINESE product to get what we need, but it seems they are the only ones who can see the market...no matter how small it might be.

    Rob

    P.S.
    Here's a quick pic of my control pendant and servo driver box.. That is a complete control that will be tethered to my electronics box by a shielded 37pin serial cable.

    Yeah DDCSV1 was OK, just wasn't in inch mode and the backlash comp didnt work and no editing panel or keyboard. It fed the signals super fast to my motors with no visually noticeable lag. But from what the rep told me, the TAC-1003M system was closed loop out the box using servo with encoders so no missed steps and the de/acceleration and speed setting are super easy to dial in. I think it was worth the money to see what it had to offer since nobody online has any pics or Vids about them in English about setting them up. Somebody has to take a chance. I may try to put something out on them with hopes that someone else with more overall technical control experience does some in depth work on them.



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    Default Re: Chinese "standalone" CNC controller

    I have been doing some looking into these controllers. There is thread on Mad Modder on them. DDCSV1.1 4 Axis controller



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    Default Re: Chinese "standalone" CNC controller

    I feel problem in DDCSV1.1, Z axis slowly up when working, may be pulse missing . Please need solution



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    Default Re: Chinese "standalone" CNC controller

    Quote Originally Posted by arafine View Post
    I feel problem in DDCSV1.1, Z axis slowly up when working, may be pulse missing . Please need solution
    If it is doing this only on the Z-axis then it is probably missing steps. It is probably not the controller because I find it highly unlikely that it would do this on only one axis. Sure it is a possibility, but more likely missing steps due to settings or motor sizing. Here are some possible solutions:

    1. Reduce acceleration
    2. Reduce maximum speed
    3. Increase motor current to maximum
    4. Increase driver voltage
    5. Install a larger stepper



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    Default Re: Chinese "standalone" CNC controller

    arafine, I am still in the process of tuning my DDCSV1.1 and have solved many problems that I have caused myself. LOL.
    I would be glad to help try and solve the problems you might be having.

    Post up the following information for each axis you are working with...

    1. Ballscrew/leadscrew pitch (threads per inch)
    2. Any gear reduction in the drive system
    3. Number of micro steps set in the driver

    Another thing that would help is to capture all of your settings and post them here. You can capture a picture of each page and attach them here or fill out the parameters page at the link below and attach the completed file and attach it here.

    Pandora Configuration Generator

    So far this has been a really great little controller for the price point. Are there functions that I would desire? Oh yeah. MDI at the top of the list. Aside from that I have been very pleased with mine.
    Please don't think I haven't run into my share of problems....but luckily they have all been from me messing up.

    Rob



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    Default Re: Chinese "standalone" CNC controller

    Quote Originally Posted by 109jb View Post
    The controller has very little to do with the precision and accuracy of a machine. So, talking this controller up like it can magically improve things is just plain fiction.
    I realize you're not familiar with industrial or professional CNC controls, but if you ever become familiar with that world, you will realize this statement is about as factually wrong as you can get:

    1. Pitch error comp
    2. Backlash comp
    3. Thermal comp
    4. Etc.

    A modern CNC control can take an adequate and even worn out machine and have it perform miracles.

    Not kidding.



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    Default Re: Chinese "standalone" CNC controller

    Quote Originally Posted by Bravin Neff View Post
    I realize you're not familiar with industrial or professional CNC controls, but if you ever become familiar with that world, you will realize this statement is about as factually wrong as you can get:

    1. Pitch error comp
    2. Backlash comp
    3. Thermal comp
    4. Etc.

    A modern CNC control can take an adequate and even worn out machine and have it perform miracles.

    Not kidding.
    Sure a controller can improve things, but you have not interpreted my post how I intended.

    BTW, LinuxCNC (open source and completely free) has all of those compensation features you mentioned except temperature compensation. Not many people working in their home shops need that anyway. You are in a thread that was started about an obvious "hobby" controller so you should really interpret the posts in that vein.

    My comment was to point out that the machine itself is what is the primary dictator of the precision and accuracy that can be achieved. I don't care how good the software is. If a machine is a turd, a controller won't turn it into a diamond.

    A controller can improve things to an extent, but there is a limit to what a controller can do. If this weren't the case then e-bay would not be flooded with old industrial CNC machines for pennies on the dollar because the fancy controllers would make then good as new by simply compensating for everything under the sun.

    As for a controller making a worn out machine perform miracles, well it depends on what you consider a miracle and what is worn out on that machine. Sure a machine with somewhat worn screws can be drastically improved with screw mapping and backlash compensation to improve positioning accuracy. At some point though, no amount of compensation will suffice and the screws will need to be rebuilt or replaced.

    I ran worn out industrial machines that had backlash compensation and screw mapping and it isn't all peaches and cream. For some things compensation is fine. For some things not so much. For example, the shop I worked in had 2 nearly identical machines except that one had many many more hours and wear. Interpolated holes could not be held on the worn out machine with more compensation turned on, but the newer machine that had a tiny amount of compensation had no problem with those same parts. Factory reps came out several times to measure and adjust compensation on the older machine to no avail. Ultimately the X and Y screws were rebuilt to fix the problems with that machine.

    Same goes for the linear guides, whether they be linear rails, dovetails, box ways, or whatever, are what is worn out it really would be a miracle if a controller can fix that. If the guides are worn out the machine will be rebuilt or scrapped and no amount of software compensation will change that.

    So yes, a controller can improve things, but there is a limit. I would take a tight machine with no compensation over a worn out one with a fancy controller compensating for defects in the machine.



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    Default Re: Chinese "standalone" CNC controller

    Quote Originally Posted by 109jb View Post
    Sure a controller can improve things, but you have not interpreted my post how I intended.
    Fair enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by 109jb View Post
    A controller can improve things to an extent, but there is a limit to what a controller can do. If this weren't the case then e-bay would not be flooded with old industrial CNC machines for pennies on the dollar...
    I think that is misleading. I am not aware of any industrial controls being sold for pennies on the dollar that:

    1. Aren't used, and in most cases *very* used, with questionable reliability.

    2. Don't impart a considerable cost to complete into an actual, usable installation.

    3. Have the more recent technologies.

    I see a lot of the 20 year old stuff that is arguably no better (and in fact worse) than any of the modern LinuxCNC type of stuff (with the exception of the physical hardware durability and tactile control, which admittedly is worth a lot), but nothing like an Okuma OSP that isn't expensive and still more expensive to integrate into something that actually works.

    I add it is uncontroversial to predict this is an evolving situation, and the trend toward cheaper (rather than more expensive) will certainly continue.

    Quote Originally Posted by 109jb View Post
    As for a controller making a worn out machine perform miracles, well it depends on what you consider a miracle and what is worn out on that machine...
    Granted.

    We replace guides and ballscrews all the time, but software mapping can take things very far before having to do that... of course depending on how tolerant the customer is with the worn out machine and what he is trying to do with it.



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