Need some help with Ethernet-to-serial

[kingneutron]

Hi, I'm new to CNC and am trying to help a client with converting away from a PC-based serial port. We tried a 2-port box from Startech but couldn't get it working due to their undocumented software (even phone support was no help at all - 2 hours wasted), and now I'm looking at Moxa and Sena solutions.

o Client info:

GE Fanuc controller, 00PC (1991)
Comm: 2400, 7, 1, Even, Flow control ON (not changeable)
Baud,Data,Stopbit,Parity

o CNC mills:
Nishimbo with floppy
Strippit (floppy status unknown)

--This is what I'm considering:
GW21R 2-port, $169
http://www.neteon.net/prod.asp?pc=14...Wired%202-Port

Nport 5210, $185
http://www.neteon.net/prod.asp?clvl=...c2=3&c3=14&p=3

Sena PS200, $249 with support:
http://www.buysena.com/p.php?id=100006

--The client is also using a DOS-based method of submitting their G-code, and would like to migrate to a Windows-based solution. I saw that Heidenhain(sp?) has some free software ( http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread...3732#post23732 ) but have no idea if it will work with a Fanuc.

Any help/advice would be vastly appreciated! TIA

[JavaDog]

Have you looked at the products from DIGI. I recommend the quite a bit and only hear good things back from my customers.

Something like their One SP may work for you...

[gar]

051108-1323 EST USA

kingneutron:

Are you proficient in working with networks? If your client switches from DOS to something else, then what is the something else and why? Why does your client want to change from DOS?

What does floppy capability have to do with networking?

How many machines now, and in the future? I assume Strippit is a punch press and not a mill.

Are all machines Fanuc? Why the excessively low baud rate? Handshake can be hardware (usually meaning RTS/CTS), or several flavors of software (XON/XOFF, DC codes, XMODEM). 7 data bits, Even parity, and 1 stop bit is good. What are the maximum baud rate capabilities of each machine? What are the current RS232 cable lengths?

Is DNC (drip mode required)? Is your client running a business or a hobby? Are programs small, under 10k bytes, and thousands of these, or are programs in the megabyte range and relatively few, 100s?

What are the goals of your client for the communication system?

For some background information visit our web site www.beta-a2.com .

.

[ESjaavik]

Alternative:
http://www.hilscher.com/products_gro...s_netnode.html
In USA: Tel: +1 630-505-5301
It's looks like an internal serial port to your PC.

Disclaimer: I'm a Hilscher distributor, although not in USA.

[Dan Fritz]

There are quite a few Ethernet serial devices out there. We've used Comtrol and Quatech, and we like the Quatech units very much. They have single-port, 2-port, 4-port and 8-port units, and they all work very well. We use them in a wired network and also with wireless bridges for wireless DNC.

They're installed by simply connecting them to your network switch with a CAT5 cable, then running their setup wizard program that comes on a CD. The wizzard searches your network and "finds" all the units attached and lists their MAC addresses (so you can see which one is which). By stepping through the wizard, you can set each units IP address and install the COM port device driver for each unit. Pretty easy, actually.

You'll have to decide whether you want to put a 1-port unit inside each CNC control, or whether you want to mount one 4 or 8-port unit near the machines and run short serial cables to each CNC control.

You MUST have Windows 2000 or XP to use the Quatech units. Their device drivers won't work otherwise.

We've installed a lot of these. We sell DNC systems for a living.

[kingneutron]

Thanks to everyone for replying... I appreciate the alternatives suggested, but we are trying to keep this under $200 if possible.

>Are you proficient in working with networks? If your client switches from DOS to something else, then what is the something else and why? Why does your client want to change from DOS?
--Yes, fairly proficient but I wouldn't call myself an expert. Right now they are using batch files which require manual typing of the filename to send, and a different batch file depending on which machine to send it to; they also have to use a switchbox to specifiy which machine is the destination. I gather they're looking for more of a point-and-click solution.

> What does floppy capability have to do with networking?
--Dunno, but I thought it would help to indicate the machine's capabilities

> How many machines now, and in the future? I assume Strippit is a punch press and not a mill.
--Two, and AFAIK that's all they'll have for the indicated future.

> Are all machines Fanuc?
--Yes, AFAIK

> Why the excessively low baud rate? Handshake can be hardware (usually meaning RTS/CTS), or several flavors of software (XON/XOFF, DC codes, XMODEM). 7 data bits, Even parity, and 1 stop bit is good. What are the maximum baud rate capabilities of each machine? What are the current RS232 cable lengths?
--I think they're using HW flow control. 2400 is they only way they could get it working, and they Really Don't Want to change that setting - I was informed they paid big $$$ just for that. I would estimate ~50-100 feet for RS232 cabling, but that's just a ballpark.

> Is DNC (drip mode required)?
--Don't know yet. If that's what it takes for a GUI solution, I might be able to persuade them.

> Is your client running a business or a hobby? Are programs small, under 10k bytes, and thousands of these, or are programs in the megabyte range and relatively few, 100s?
--Business; most files and jobs that I saw are small and under 30 files.

> What are the goals of your client for the communication system?
--Sorry, I should have been more specific. They are using a manual switchbox with (2) outgoing serial ports, currently connected to an XP machine's serial port. They want to start slow, keeping the existing RS232 cabling to the machines; we are recommending an Ethernet-to-serial (2-port) solution to get away from the dedicated PC serial port and cause minimal disruption to their existing procedures. (BTW, this is because the serial port on the NT PC that they used to use broke, and my partner had to do some fancy footwork to get it working on the XP box.)

For some background information visit our web site www.beta-a2.com .

.[/QUOTE]

[gar]

kingneutron:

My guess on their baud rate limit of 2400 is that it resulted from cable length and the total cable capacitance.

I need to emphasize that directly connected RS232 ports are a bad idea in most cases. See my web site page on NOISE and GROUNDING. Electrical shorts from a hot AC line to the safety ground can produce damaging voltages to RS232 chips. Isolation is needed.

Ethernet to RS232 (single port) will provide isolation, or something like our I232 isolator. An Ethernet to multiple RS232s (your referenced 2 port) in one box will not normally be designed with isolation between the multiple RS232s, but will have isolation from the Ethernet line. Thus, an electrical fault at one of the CNCs could destroy the RS232 area of the Ethernet to RS232 device. Depends upon what is done inside the Ethernat to RS232 box.

If you use an Ethernet to RS232, then select an IP address outside of the addresses used for other networking on the computer. Maybe something like 192.168.211.20 .

You may need to be concerned with UART FIFOs at the computer, or wherever.

It appears that your current goal is to use an Ethernet to RS232 at the computer to avoid using the computer's RS232.

Drip feed has nothing to do with GUI. DNC has multiple meanings. I prefer to limit its definition to that of drip feeding. Here DNC means Direct Numerical Control. The drip feed mode is used when the CNC program size is larger than the available CNC program memory space in the CNC. In this mode the serial handshake signals are used to modulate the flow of data to the CNC.

Under Windows you can do RS232 communication with a number of different programs.

Batch files and manual typing of files names does not necessarily change because you change from an internal to external RS232, but is more of a function of what you choose for the communication software in the computer.

.

[Gandalf]

Try the quatech usb to serial adaptor. $79.00.

[ChopperDoc]

We have the ability to send one program to many machines with the WiBox. It costs around $279 per box.

If you view my post titled 'Inexpensive Wireless Intranet Based Program Transfer to Multiple Machines' you will get a good picture as to the cost and implementation.

Most of our programs were developed on the modularity concept. This means many small files that house specific parts and one file that contains the variables that change between models.

When a download command is initiated, I concatinate the files specific to the machine that it is being sent to. I then open a Winsock connection to each machine and send the program as a batch.

A good example is the IBH Macro8000. This controller requires a leading 'CRLF' and then a '%CRLF'. All I have to do is read each file and concatinate them as separate programs. It looks something like this.

%
P123456
N12(test program 123456)
N9999M30

%
P234567
N12(test2 program 234567)
N9999M30

%
P345678
N12(test3 program 345678)
N9999M30

This is then read as one program into the IBH. The IBH control is set to AUX,9600,8,E,1. Ensure that you click on the LOAD ALL button. When the machine is ready to accept the program, run the VB application that is discussed in the post I talked about above.

These programs will be loaded as one batch. You will see the program names listed in the message area of the screen as each one is loaded.

I place an 18 second delay between programs because I haven't developed the VB Application to talk based on COMPORT connection. The application was developed to talk with NO FLOW CONTROL for the early Fanuc controls.

If you are interested in discussing this in more depth, please email me at jamesneal6927@msn.com. I will be more than happy to talk about this.

Also, I am not, by no means, an expert in this field. I have been programming software for the past 11 years. I started out my IT career building computers for my brother, so I can leverage that knowledge and my programming skills to make these things work. The more time I spend on them the easier it gets to make them talk.

[rancherbill]

I've been a computer tech for 26 years.

RS232 is not a standard in the way that we know standards today.

It just specifies pin names, active state high/low, voltages etc. It does not specify how it operates.

The Fanuc being 2400 baud etc screams out' I'M OLD!" It comes from a time when everybody designed them just a little or a lot different.

Get a Fanuc manual and see how they want the interface.

I'm sure somebody has told you that you need a cable with pins 1,2,3,4,5,6,8, and 20. There are other pins that were used in this vintage machine.

You didn't mention what your problem was but my guess you were getting buffer overflows or the it would work for a while and then lock up.

If you can't find someone who knows more about the fanuc cables, then post a link to the manual and I'll try to come up with a cable configuration that will work.