Pricing and ownership of plugs and moulds

[john-t]

I have a client who wants a part manufactured from epoxy and fiberglass fabric.

The requirement is for a male plug and from that a female mould to make a component approx 30" x 30" x 20" high at approx 1/8" thick

Initially the component will be a one off but if sales take off the mould or moulds would be expected to make several components per month.

Generally how does one calculate the cost of the plug and moulds assuming the plug is from foam covered with epoxy and the mould is polyester or vinyl-ester grp. Work out the machining hours add materials and leave it at that?

Secondly, what's the normal practise as regards ownership of such plugs and moulds given that the design of the component is copyright.


J

[flyinchips]

As the customer is paying for it, I would say it falls under "work for hire": customer owns it. That is not to say you can't negotiate a mutually beneficial arrangement before you do the work. I would say if the customer is paying for the plugs and molds, those too are works for hire and belong to him. I'm pretty sure this is how out court system sees it too.

[aarggh]

Hmmm... this is almost the exact same thing someone else asked very recently, and there was a LOT of opinion on that :-)

check out this link John:

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/mechan...s_files-3.html


Just to throw my 2 cents in again though, I agree with flyinchips so far as is this is contracted work, and the customer owns the complete right to the manufactured parts if that is ALL he has contracted, but the way I see it, you created the molds and processes to achieve the end part the client wanted, so while you probably can't ever manufacture the end product, and shouldn't anyway, you own the molds and the right to manufacture them for him. If he decides to go elsewhere, the whole process starts over again and the new guy makes the molds for him. Unless of course the contract stated that he wasn't just buying the end product off you, but ALSO all the creative works to achieve the end product, there's a difference I believe. As in so far as you used Solidworks as part of the process to achieve the end product to create the 3D model, doesn't necessarily make him the owner of your Solidworks license, or of your computer that you used, etc, etc.

Again, this is assuming (as I read your post anyway) that he hasn't contracted you to make molds per se, but to have you to manufacture the end part which would require you to make molds as part of your process.

If there's any doubt, you probably give them over to save any bad blood, but build the cost in accordingly.

cheers,
Ian

[RomanLini]

Hmm, I remember that thread.

I think the customer is a bit dumb to contract the work of making molded products and not to clearly specify who will own the molds.

And the guy doing the work would be dumb not to have clearly specified who owns the molds after all the products are made...

If you have not yet quoted, give him two prices;
A. price just to make X products, you own the molds afterwards.
B. price to make X products and give the molds to the customer.

And like pretty much everybody agreed in the other thread, communication is real important! It's profesional to make sure *everyone* understands exactly what the deal is before the job starts.

[Geof]

The customer owns what the customer pays for.

So you had better make sure it is specified in writing what the customer is paying for.

To give the customer a break on the mold cost you could agree to charge only labor, not materials, with the understanding that you would retain possesion of the mold and keep it intact and usable for a specified period of time. Also agree that this first mold will be a "quick and dirty"; adequate to finish off a few components but not designed for even short term full scale fast production.

This means the customer has the opportunity to get additional parts off the mould but if things do not go ahead you can reclaim any usable materials from the mold.

If the customer does not return with further orders within the specified time you are free to use the mold materials.

If the customer wants to take possesion of the mold the cost of the labor component to make it becomes payable and they may remove what is now fully their property, from your premises.

For the sake of courtesy and security you should have notification periods so that a short while before the 'specified period of time', ends and you are free to use (or destroy), the mold you notify the customer just in case they have forgotten and were planning on placing a big order a day too late.

EDIT: I typed more and slower and overlapped with Romanlini

[flyinchips]

There are some smart people here... Thanks for chiming in guys.

[john-t]

Thanks for all the replies, have agreed with owner that he is paying for the plug and he will own it. The moulds are mine for what they are worth.

Now all I have to is figure a cost on all of this.

[RICHARD ZASTROW]

What value you attach for your design/engineering time could be added unless you included that in your pricing/quote.

Dick Z