Newbie considering Imservice 12x12 Machine

[roamingdrone]

Hello all, I've been reading the forums for some time (and lots of other places too!) - and am just about ready to jump in the water.

Firstly, I'll mention what I intend to to. My goal is to be able to cut PCBs and acrylic housings for components, up to 10"x10" sizes. Eventually, I'd like to (maybe) cut aluminum too, as some of the projects I work on do require aluminum hubs here and such (think motion control projects for photography).

I realize this is a "woodworking" section, but it's the only section discuss routers =)

Now, I've looked at pretty much everything within my price range (~ $2000), and I've settled on two options:

The Fireball V90 (made of MDF - wouldn't be able to do any aluminum on it in the future)
The ImService 12x12 router.

I'm leaning towards the Imservice, as its made of metal, and works with the trend T4 router, which has a higher RPM than the Bosch the Fireball is designed for. And, as I understand it, PCBs require a higher RPM to cut the smaller traces.

So, my first question is, does anyone think I'm making a mistake going w/ Imservice? Is there a better option in my price range? I've looked at K2, but for a similar size, they cost over a thousand more once you add motors in, blowing my budget.

My second question is, should I use their DeskCNC control option, or go with Mach3? I've played with both applications, Mach3 looks more mature, but without an actual machine - I have no idea whether one is better than the other. Currently, I'm using eMachineshop CAD, and exporting to cambam to generate the G-Code (mostly just looking at the pretty lines, as I have no machine *grin*)

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm really excited to get started and see some of my designs come to life - at least prettier than routing by hand *grin*.

!c

[jalessi]

Roamingdrone,

Machining aluminum on a moving gantry style router is not one of there strong points.

Machining metal requires a very sturdy platform, most have fixed columns or fixed gantry.

On top of that, the mess will be a handful and difficult to contain without a enclosure.

Motion control camera parts and aluminum hubs on a Fireball?

What kind of accuracy do your parts require?

You may want to invest more time for research before you make any purchase.

Welcome to the Zone.

Jeff...

[ger21]

You might also want to look at www.romaxxcnc.com

For a little more money, you get a bigger and faster machine.

[roamingdrone]

Hi Jeff - thanks for the feedback.

I wasn't considering the fireball for aluminum - noting that it would be an impossibility with that model. Most of the parts I make are out acrylic and off-the-shelf hardware components see: http://dronecolony.com/2008/new_img/...2/IMGP6239.jpg
http://dronecolony.com/2008/new_img/...2/IMGP6263.jpg

I was (essentially) wondering if the imservice was worthy enough at that price, to eventually cut aluminum parts. As I understand, the imservice has a fixed gantry and moving table...

The thought was that the imservice was a good enough machine to handle PCBs and acrylic for now, and then small aluminum parts later. If I have to give up on aluminum entirely in the $2,000 range, that wouldn't kill me.

The enclosure would actually be the first thing I build, as my workspace is a 400sq. ft. area directly in the center of my "loft" (if you will) -- I have no floor-ceiling walls in the interior, and neighboring walls are quite thin. That means I wouldn't be able to watch TV or think straight while its running w/o one. I intend to make one using 80/20 framing material, plexiglass for a see-through door, and the remaining sides out of two layers of plywood with expanding foam between them to suck up most of the sound.

Accuracy just needs to be within 0.05" on most cuts, as I'm placing holes for bolts for sections to connect to each other, and for traces on PCBs. As I understand, a lot of people use both the imservice and the fireball for PCBs, so I'm not too worried on that front.

I'm almost getting to the point frustration in my search, to be honest. I've been doing research now for four months - and I feel like I've whittled it down to only one candidate, and can't believe I'm stuck at that point going "is it really the best option?" Effectively, I've removed all of the non-metal (the plastic and MDF kits one sees) versions except for the fireball (mostly because it seems so loved in the PCB world) - the nearest neighbor to the imservice one I can find are the K2 routers. They look great, and have a great following, but the cost of entry is really getting to me a little bit. Looks like I could get the 14x14 model, with 35k spindle, but without electronics at $1300, leaving my $700 to spend on electronics, but I keep getting the notion that any cheap 3-axis setup I get for $700 isn't going to be as good as the servos in the imservice kit.


!c

[roamingdrone]

Gerry - I hadn't seen that Romaxx HS-1 yet! That looks like a great contender. I can only presume the closed-loop servo system from imservice isn't that great, otherwise it wouldn't be so inexpensive compared to the others out there.

(I've also read quite a bit of negative feedback about imservice support, which is my primary reason for being so hesitant to pull the trigger with their system.)

!church

[slowbob]

roamingdrone,

I’m fairly sure, one of the guys in my maker/hacker group (“Go Tech” Ann Arbor, mi) has used the imservice cnc to mill aluminum for his nixi tube clock enclosures. I know he is really happy with the speeds he gets with the servos. If you post to the yahoo group notbago I’m sure he will reply.

Bob

[roamingdrone]

Bob,

Thanks for the heads-up - I'll see what I can find over there.

So, after some consideration, it's no big deal to remove the fireball from the list, but, surprisingly, after some digging, I'm going to add k2 back to the list....

So, I'm now narrowed down to three:

The Romaxx HS-1 (most expensive of the lot - but largest area @ 24x14)
The Imservice 12x12 (middle of-the-road price, but plug-n-play)
The K2 1414 w/ 3-axis probostep kit from Probotix (least expensive combination)

Both the Romaxx and the K2 would use the Porter Cable 892 router. Only question I have about the K2 setup, is "is the probotix kit worth a darn?" the motors are about the same rating as would be gotten from K2, but for $1,000 less. Any thoughts on that setup? Here's the probotix kit: http://www.probotix.com/3_axis_stepp...or_driver_kit/

Thanks again for all of the great info and advice!

!c

[TOTALLYRC]

Originally Posted by roamingdrone Bob, Thanks for the heads-up - I'll see what I can find over there. So, after some consideration, it's no big deal to remove the fireball from the list, but, surprisingly, after some digging, I'm going to add k2 back to the list.... So, I'm now narrowed down to three: The Romaxx HS-1 (most expensive of the lot - but largest area @ 24x14) The Imservice 12x12 (middle of-the-road price, but plug-n-play) The K2 1414 w/ 3-axis probostep kit from Probotix (least expensive combination) Both the Romaxx and the K2 would use the Porter Cable 892 router. Only question I have about the K2 setup, is "is the probotix kit worth a darn?" the motors are about the same rating as would be gotten from K2, but for $1,000 less. Any thoughts on that setup? Here's the probotix kit: http://www.probotix.com/3_axis_stepp...or_driver_kit/ Thanks again for all of the great info and advice! !c

I use both Mach3 and Deskcnc to run machines in my shop. The Deskcnc is nice in that it also includes a cam function for generating Gcode from dxf and stl files, allowing 2d and 3d cnc work.

Mach3 is also a nice machine controller but it doesn't do the cam portion, although there are some nice wizards included with it and more are available. Both run machines really well, but the Deskcnc will run on a PI200 on up with win95 on up.The desk cnc controller board does the motion control generation and takes the load off of the computers cpu.
Mach must use a 1ghz and win2k on up. The steps are generated on the pc, unless you are getting a external motion controller.


As far as controllers go, if using mach3 as the machine control software and steppers,I would use the G540 from Gecko drives and nothing else, unless the money was really tight. I have used another driver based on the alegro chipset, read xylotex, and the difference from what I have read is amazing. Plus the G540 will be useable on may different kinds of machines with a lot more power and speed available for your future endevours than the low cost boards.

Mike

[roamingdrone]

Ok, after a lot of list making, comparisons, etc. I have executed my purchase - got a good deal on a K2 2514-5 (25"x14"x5") router frame and t-slot table via their eBay sales, and picked up a middle-of-the road motor/driver/breakout kit from Probotix.

After a lot of comparing and all of that, this route gave me the most working area for the buck. (Everything, including router and shipping comes out to ~ $2400.) I know there had been issues posted here with K2 previously, but most of it seems to have happened earlier on in their lineage (e.g. 2005), and they have been extremely responsive to both phone and email thus far.

Probotix was fast to help me choose a motor kit. I know that the Geckos are a lot better, but the gecko setups also would've blown my budget (I still have to make an enclosure, and buy bits, and pay for mach3, and buy books, and... =) - this will at least get me in a good position to upgrade later.

I almost went for the Romaxx, the thing does look sweet, but at the price (add about $240 to their prices to have a spindle and mount) I opted for work area over speed.

Now, I just play the waiting game... Patience is not my strong suit *GRIN*

Thanks for the advice from everyone!

!c

[cabnet636]

you have done good welcome to cnc!!

jim