Where's the FAQ?

[JEMelby]

I've long been lurking the back of the CNC community gleaning what information I can. I hope to buy a mid-level pro-sumer grade CNC router one day soon, but I just can't seem to crack into the who-what-when-where-why of CNC routers. Most of what I know, I got from the ShopBot forum. There was a time when I thought I'd just get a Shopbot, but after a trip to the IWF 08, I realized that there is a ton of competition out there for my CNC router dollars!

So, where's the FAQ that will explain the difference between a step-motor and a servo? or G-code vs proprietary control software? or how about 2.5D vs true 3D?

Of course, I could lay my ignorance out here on the forum and clog the bit-stream with every little tiny question that has already been answered to excess. But I'd really like a book or FAQ to read first.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

FYI: My goal is for a "break-even toy". Not neccessarily a real money-maker. I would need something that is robust and serious enough and would allow me to do some serious out-source work (boring) so that I can play with it other times (fun!) About $15,000 - $25,000 is my target. Accuracy and resolution is first consideration, followed by power (5hp columbo) and durability.

Thanks for the responses. Especially those that tell me to bugger off and go read the $%#^ing FAQ!, so long as they tell me where it is :-)

[ger21]

Here's some info about steppers vs servos, but I don't think there is a FAQ here that covers everything in one place.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17419

[postalgbv]

There should be a CNC wiki dedicated to routing. Don't know why there isn't.. Shopbot has a wiki but it's weak.

There's a 2-sided problem I have found in the online CNC world... you have guys like at Shopbot forum who would recommend a Shopbot for anybody, for any application which can get a bit absurd. Then you have the guys at other forums who say that if you don't have a dual table Onsrud, you can't possibly do anything and everything else is worthless and can't produce good parts. Everyone wants to justify how they spent their money, on both ends of the spectrum.

I went for a machine that fit your specs exactly, because that's what I could afford and fit in my shop, both size-wise and with single phase power. I got a Camaster because they are nearby, heavier welded construction than others in the class, have 3 separate routing heads, and no raised side rails.. of course, it looks like a toy compared to the big machines at IWF, but I also don't run a factory. Horses for courses...

Do you have the Techno book they send out? They may have a copy of it online.. http://www.techno-isel.com/H850/H850Cat.htm . It is a decent primer for CNC routing, though of course is biased toward components of their machines, naturally.

and I think of 2d as cutting profiles, etc full through plywood, 2.5d as cutting pockets, dados, etc at other depths where XY are moving and occasionally the Z level changes, and 3d is when XYZ are all moving at the same time. The lines between these definitions are easily blurred though (think v-carving..)

[cabnet636]

camaster is in layfayette ga, postals machine is there until wed when it will be delivered there are several being built one of them is mine, i have one now in columbia sc, layfayette is up 75 one hour from you

jim

www.camaster.com

[JEMelby]

[QUOTE=postalgbv;495608]...It is a decent primer for CNC routing, though of course is biased toward components of their machines, naturally... [QUOTE]

This is sort of why I made my inquiry here. looking for an unbiased opinion, or atleast a source for a basic understanding. I wish consumer reports would do an article on them!

I saw the CAMaster at IWF, and was pretty impressed with it. I was, however, a bit aprehensive about the control software. It looked a little "bubble-gummy." Then again, what I know about the ShopBot control software is that it is a bit proprietary.

I guess I will start posing my questions one at a time (after researching, of course) and see what kind of debates spring up from the various camps.

[postalgbv]

regarding the controller software from Camaster... as far as I know, they were running WinCNC and they had created a custom user interface to use with it, but it's still winCNC. Not sure if you can change back to default winCNC screens or not, but that's all it was. They did it to make a simplified, clean look, without any unnecessary buttons on the main screen.

I'll know later this week when I get my machine, and I'll write back with more info on this.

And the Techno book/online book is still a good resource.. it's not really too biased (I was thinking mainly on their section of servo vs stepper...).

[cabnet636]

oh boy!! bubble gummy now theres a word!! i would not trade my totally configurable, totaly industrial, totaly non propietary, totaly wonderful wincnc for all the tea in china!!!

and i am still operating the old yellow screen, with my beloved "go to home button"

wincnc is the accepted principle controller at the midsize commercial router and is far more than most non commercial cnc users will ever need!!

jim mcgrew
www.mcgrewwoodwork.com
camaster owner
cobra 408 (2000)
cobre 510atc (2008)

[cabnet636]

oh an eric, you can do anything you want with that screen!! have you downloaded the demo yet!! i'll send you the older screen ini, but yours will operate with the newer screen as it was configured for the three headed macros to run your type of z config. mine with the atc will be different, i think.

jim

[cabnet636]

je i did several months of research on cnc before purchasing. the excitech router purchase thread was started by rocket in australia on nov27 07 myself and others were the first posters it is a long read as it has thousands of post but the first month or so are abunch of guys waiting and purchasing new and used routers. i would suggest you start there as all of those guys have their routers now and are cuttin away!!

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46637

start at the beginning, some of the threads were removed as an ahole tried to derail the topic but as you will find there are some great guys involved and it has survived quite well

jim

[cabnet636]

i'll throw this out there, ther is a 4x8 dual drive built by bill in 03, it is in pheonix az and is for sale from what i can tell is a shop out of business.

this router at 6000.00 nego even if it neede a motor or two is still worth 12-15,000 and it has vacuum table and pc dedicated

http://www.woodweb.com/exchanges/mac...ts/422924.html

some body's gonna steal this router

jim

[cabnet636]

je, i hope your process is moving along. i got so mad at one point i was just going to build the thing.



in my search i found

before purchase,
sales men who did not know there product and were willing to overpromise just to get a check,

overpriced routers where i would be paying more for the advertising than the router.

underweight routers that in the long run while they would do the initial job woud have been worthless in the long run. heavy welded iron tables hold value. bolt togethers do not, thers a reason you'll see routers for sale and others are hard to find used (they sell quick) and usually local.

most of the mid weight routers are non propietary and therefor motors can be found, bearings etc. if the router is well built and kept well it will last a looong time!! my first one is 9 years old and i chose to upgrade motors and controller to newer technology but the machine ran fine the way it was.

the total cost of my upgrade (and to some overkill industrial standards) was 2500.00 with me doing the labor ( i can see wy it is worth it to pay some one 3500-4500 to do this though). my router is carving at 300ipm and i am going to test further speeds!

promises of 1200-2000 ipm are foolishness as it is not a bright idea to cut this fast unless you have a vacuum that cost more than your router and have 3 guys standing around to turnover the material in the router.

can a 25000.00 router out cut a 75-100.000$ router yes it can just buy two of the mid size routers and put them on the same vacuum and switch back and forth! buying one router at this method will payoff and upgrade far faster than big iron ever will.

there are afew routers that i will speak up if i have seen some one get ripped off, there are others that you are iffy with and there are several that are really good value and support. i have one friend who has purchased a national well advertised brand or router (used) and the mother company has refused to support him constanly transfering him to new sales, when he starts asking questions, my router company never did that! personally i hope we enlighten some of these cnc companies, the small router market is growing and some of them still act like they are the only player in the game.

i can appreciate the need for unbiased opinions on cnc and after purchasing, finding the right guys to shorten my learning curve, i cannot be so unbiased any more, but i can hope your cnc experience will be as great as mine has been, here on cnc zone and in the cnc company i keep not all of us have the router i purchased but no one let that stand in the way of being helpful.

jim mcgrew
cnc owner