CNC Router Help - Which machine to buy

[camden09]

Hello,
I am interested in purchasing CNC Router for sign making and mouldings. Which machine would you suggest for a first time for under 15K.
Thanks

[Svelte]

I am having great luck with my Shop Sabre. It is a very robust machine with many features. I have to admit that I spent almost $25,000 (with shipping) for mine, but it has dual spindles, an extended 10" gantry clearance, and a 4th axis unit. I also opted for an automatic vacuum control, 2 dust skirts, locking wheel kit, and a digitizing probe and software.

You can certainly buy one of these, well equipped, for around $11,000. I flew to several locations and checked out these machines before I decided to purchase my Shop Sabre. I have been impressed with the lack of problems (actually none) and with the professionalism I encountered when I visited their manufacturing facility.

The thing that I like best is the all-steel welded construction of the entire machine and the ballscrew design. It is very rigid, and very accurate. If you can't tell, I am VERY satisfied with my purchase. It fired right up, perfectly, right out of the crate.

If you ever get near Phoenix, AZ, stop by and see my machine.

[todd71]

Svelte,
Does the machine jump around with the caster wheels on there?I love my shop sabre as well. But I ended up adding braces to increase the rigidity of the base.Without the braces when the x/y axis transitioned on my machine the corners were less than desired. The braces fixed it and I've been happy ever sence. I can only imagine how much more flexing I'd have if the machines center of gravity was lifted up the extra hight need for the caster wheels. All in all, its a great machine for the price.

Todd
http://www.innovative-accents.com

P.S. Hows the 4th axis working out? I may have to come by and check that out some time. I'm over in Mesa,AZ. If thats OK

[Plastix]

Hi Todd
We are UK based plastics machinists looking to buy a not-too-expensive CNC router (we currently have Haas VMC's and Lathes). Looking at your website it seems like you guys machine some thick acrylic and PE or PP sheet. We machine mainly Delrin, Nylon and UHMWPE in thicnesses from 1/2" to 2". Which model Shopsabre do you have and do you reckon it has enough gantry rigidity to accurately machine our thicker materials (we look to achieve -0 +
.0015")? Is the machine still as reliable as ever?

Doug

[cabnet636]

i see you are in georgia, i am in columbia sc and have two camasters built in calhoun ga.

www.camaster.com

www.camheads.org

seeing the machine and meeting joey and paul speaks all that is needed for the machine and owner support

we also have a lot of info here

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/forumdisplay.php?f=38

[todd71]

Hi Todd
..... Which model Shopsabre do you have and do you reckon it has enough gantry rigidity to accurately machine our thicker materials (we look to achieve -0 +.0015")? Is the machine still as reliable as ever?

Doug

Doug,
Greetings. My machine is (2006) 4896 5hp/5 tool changer. Which I would assume the newer machines are some what of an upgrade. Mainly being the Y-axis is now driven on a "set" ball screw by a servo driven collar assembly attached to the gantry. Rather than servo motor spinning the ball screw itself. And most of the rigidity issues have been resolved.
Even at that "-0 +.0015". I would say it can't cut tolerances that close.
+/_ .005 X and Y axis. +/_.002 on Z axis is probably as tight as I could get.
A machine that could repeat with in +/_ .0007 would be step above what most router manufacturers could deliver. They'll say anything but in the real world you'll never know till you put the tool to the material. If I needed a machine that tight I would look to the bigger players in the game.
http://www.haascnc.com/details.asp?I...Y#VMCTreeModel

http://www.omnitech-systems.com/omni...d=78&Itemid=87

etc.
Even then, the extra gantry weight of a big rigid machine with a tool changer hanging off the side may not be so good for 3D cutting times.
Less weight is better for that. Just depends on the need.

Good luck,
Todd

[Plastix]

Hi Todd

Many thanks for the very useful info. The Shopsabre website doesnt go into much detail about the machine so prospective customers like me are kept guessing. A couple more questions if you dont mind. Is 5Hp enough muscle for machining thick (say 1.5") plastic sheets and is the gantry on the Shopsabre made of welded steel or aluminium?
Again, thanks for your help.

Regards
Doug

[cabnet636]

plastix, i am with todd to import a machine a light as any mentioned here and expect the tollerances you are asking is like driving a mini while squinting your eyes and pretending you are driving a bmw. the single biggest reason i did not purchase the shopsabre is the lack of beef in the table and gantry, but i must confess that both machines (my camaster and the shop sabre) utilize many of the same quality components and even while i have several friends who have the shop sabre and are happy with it, i still would not recommend any of these machines (camaster, shop sabre or techno) to machine thick plastics with the tolerances you are requesting.

jim

[Plastix]

Hi Jim

Thanks for your input. Okay, my expectations were unrealistic re the tolerances and +/- 0.002" could be acceptable for the kind of product we would use the router for. I would guess that 10 Hp motor rather than 5 or 7Hp would be required for machining thick (1.5") plastics ???

We would like to use a vacuum system but have been told that the pump makes a LOT of noise. Is a most powerful pump (20Hp) less noisy than a smaller (5Hp) pump? Can they be enclosed on 3 sides & top to reduce the noise? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Doug

[cabnet636]

all vacs are noisy (i have two 1-5hp, 1-15hp) the vac can be isolated in sound proofing, with importation into the uk and the fact that you are considering a machine one would bolt together why not a shopbot? there are plenty of them in the uk.

jim

[todd71]

Tom over at http://www.cuttingedgecomponents.com/ has a Omnitech Selexx with, I believe, the 10hp Becker vacuum pump. So quiet you don't
even know its on. Just an amazing machine.
As for shop sabre it will work. I cut 2" acrylic (1" deep of cut with a 2 flute 1/2 e.m.) Still takes 3 passes. A 5hp spindle should be fine. The 10hp I got is way more hp than needed. I originally ordered the 5hp with 10 station tool changer. Found out the 10hp with the 5 station changer was cheaper. Went with that figuring I wouldn't need more than 5 tools any way. Having got it I'm glad I only got the 5 station tool changer ,as I can cut 5ft x 5ft sheets where the other 5 tool holders would be.
For 2" acrylic the process to achieve +/- .005 would be.
Rough pass: .950 deep each / +.04 on profile (12,000 rpm/85 i.p.m.)
Finish pass: Full depth / profile to size (17,000 rpm/100 i.p.m.)
I have had problems with small pcs that moved around. Found it easier to
just use spray adhesive and 1/4" MDF to hold down acrylic. Last thing you want to do is use tabs on acrylic and the vacuum can only do so much in certain situations.
If I had to do again the CAMaster would definitely be
one to checkout. As Jim mentioned the base is more ridged than what I got with my machine, the dust collection is better designed, drill head on the side of the spindle motor could come in handy and the 4th axis capabilities are cool. I'm still happy with the shop sabre. Does everything I need. For now anyway.

[Plastix]

Been on the CAMaster website but cant see whether machine is Ballscrew or R&P, Servo or Stepper. For my use I would prefer ballscrew & servo. Jim, you should be ble to tell me these details.

Doug