Help me decide -- MTC Semi-Pro or Ez-Router

[Hyrum R]

Hi everyone,
I'm looking at adding a CNC to my cabinet shop sometime soon. I want, and only have space for, a 4x8 table, that I can use to cut mostly melamine for cabinet boxes. I want a reasonable speed, and a machine that isn't going to be knocking itself out of alignment after a month.

I've been looking very hard at either the MTC Semi-Pro table, or just buying an Ez-Router. I would probably just go with the EZ-Router if it weren't for 2 things -- size and the side rails. I really want a machine that I can easily slide a sheet on without having those rails in the way.

The MTC Semi-Pro (not shown on their website) has the table built the way I like, but I don't know if I want to take the time to put it all together. It's also a few inches smaller on the Y-Axis, which is rather important considering the space constraints I have to deal with. I HAVE built a CNC(Solsylva plan), so I'm not really afraid of building a larger one, but I don't know if I can justify taking the time to do it, much as I'm sure I'd enjoy the experience.

I've done a lot of searching on the EZ-Router on the Zone, and it looks like those that have one are really pleased with it. It looks like a very reasonably priced decent machine, and the all steel table is another plus for it. I was also blown away with the video of it cutting through 3/4" MDF with a Porter-Cable router.

I guess what I'm after is experiences of people with either machine. Please realize that I'm not talking about the MTC plan shown on their website, but their Semi-Pro version. The MTC is also belt-driven on the X and Y axis, just like the EZ-Router. I'm just not sure if I really trust bolted together aluminum for what I want though. Either machine is about the right budget. Thanks in advance.

Edit:
I've attached the flyer for the MTC Semi-Pro version. EZ-Router can be found at www.ez-router.com

[Switcher]

I've read that EZ-Router rapids at 800ipm.

Your PDF says 400ipm on the Semi-Pro.


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[Torchhead]

Be aware that the MTC semi-pro uses DeskCNC control software. It uses an external pulse card and works ONLY with their software. You have no other software control options. That limits you if you ever want to switch the machine over to plasma cutting because DeskCNC does not support an integrated Torch Height Controller and a stand-alone version of a THC will cost you thousands. Their suggestion of using a drag tip shows a complete misunderstanding of the plasma cutting process.

It also prevents you from using one of the most popular software controls around running from the PC: MACH3.

EZ-Router uses MACH as its software so it's much easier to use it as a dual function machine. You can also benefit from the third party add-on products for MACH like our new 28 Function Hand Controller and an optional Spindle Speed controller for controlling the bigger commercial spindles.

While the lower drive system to free up the sides for side loading appears attractive, it does present problems with dust and debris getting into the drive components easier. I have a machine I built with lower rails and I have to stop and clean everything up about every 30 minutes of run time and that is with a dust extractor on the head!

Since you have built a machine in the past you already know that what you design it to cut and what it ends up doing are often two different things. Always think about future upgrades and expansion.

Tom Caudle
www.CandCNC.com
Complete line of CNC electronics

[Switcher]

I've been very interested in the ez-router for a while now, all the machines they offer look very solid to me.

I would like to have the 4x8, but I only have room for a 5x5 at most.

I've also considered just getting the control box & steppers from ez-router ( http://www.ez-router.com/index.asp?P...PROD&ProdID=61 ) at $1,122.00

Something I found was that the ez-router has the "Breakout Board Plus" that is sold on the Bob Campbell website ( http://www.campbelldesigns.com/breakout-board2.php ) for $130.00 which is a very good price for me!

So I'm kinda torn between buying the ez-router (5x5), or building an ez-router clone.



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[Torchhead]

[QUOTE=Switcher;285788]I've been very interested in the ez-router for a while now, all the machines they offer look very solid to me.

They do build a solid machine. The price you quoted does not include the motors or cables.

For comparison you might want to look at our package deals at http://www.candcnc.com/SolutionsMenu.htm

They are turn key electronics packages integrated and tested. Cables. connectors, motors, interface cables, control software, Home switches, etc, We use the new Gecko 203 drives and a sophisticated power controller with Dynamic braking, Overvoltage shutdown and remote control from our MP1000-Basic control panel. All of our package deals use the MP1000 series interface/control panel and MACH3. We use the 740 OZ-in 34 frame motors and will drive a the heavier gantrys needed for a router application.

We have a plug-n-go system and a low cost 28 function pendant that plugs right into the front of any MP1000 series control panel.

The MP1000 is a Dual port BOB along with other functions and it lives in the control head away from the heat and noise of the power components.

Tom Caudle
www.CandCNC.com

[Hyrum R]

Thanks for the insights, guys. So far, EZ-Router is winning. I'm just going to have to cut a wall back a few feet to get it to fit where I want it. The side rails probably won't bother that much because the only place I can see of where I can fit the machine, I'd have to load it from the end anyway.

Now, my main concern is whether to just buy the 5hp spindle, or try to use a router. Going with the spindle EZ-Router sells will make my price be about $13k. I'd jut go with the router for now, except EZ-Router tells me that it's almost impossible to upgrade to a spindle later on their machines. They say it takes a different control board, and all the wiring would have to be redone. I was thinking, well I could burn up 10 routers before the price of a spindle, but then I thought afterwords, I'd have paid the price of a spindle by then, and all I would have would be 10 dead routers. It comes back to the point of paying for a tool because you don't have it.

Then there's the issue of software. I have KCDw, but just the designer. I'm afraid to ask what the price for their CNC add-on is, but I doubt it's any less than $8k. I actually do a bit of programming on the side, and I'm tempted to just write my own software for nesting my cabinet parts, but then that would take a long time, and I'd be spending time writing software when I could be making sawdust instead. Why do we have to have so many choices! LOL

[Switcher]

Have you tried http://www.sheetcam.com/Features.htm for nesting parts?




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[Switcher]

You might find out about a warranty for the spindle (colombo) is it with ez-router or http://www.pdscolombo.com/auto_rs_rv.htm (link from the ez-router site).





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[Hyrum R]

Well, KCDw wants $8995 just for the CNC link to create the DXF files from the cabinet drawings, which I would then have to import into another program like sheetcam, etc. to get my toolpaths. It's another $12000 if I want their CAM package. There's no way I can afford that right now! So, I'm starting to write my own software for doing cabinet parts. Maybe by the time I have my software ready, I'll have enough to afford the CNC.

I emailed EZ-router, and they say the Colombo spindle has a 1 year warranty from the manufacturer.
Time to start saving.

[Torchhead]

I dunno much about milling out cabinets with CNC but I worked in a cabinet shop for a short time and had to help "bust out" sheets of material. Seems like most of the cuts were composed of bunches of the same width with dados on the the edges, etc. I know it is a simplification but we route bunches of small PCB's out of smaller stock pieces of material. I use SheetCAM and once the 2D drawing is done, I just use SheetCAM to define the shapes on the material and the toolpaths. Dados are just picking a tool and a depth and setting the feedrate. I realize the software does all the calculations for you but for $21,000 I think I would do my own drawings.

If you had stock components in CAD and laid them up on a sheet with the dados. rabbits and outside cuts how long would it take to have most or allof the components you need? Does the software provide for the raised panel doors or is it just for the carcus?

Sometimes you find that speciality software made for a specific industry is really pricey. They know most shop owners know little about CNC or computers and in "mystery there is margin"

Try out using a simple drawing program and SheetCAM and maybe the $166 price tag will make up for some of the manual work you have to do to cut cabinets. If you need some help on the project contact me off-list. I plan on building a new house this fall and I will cut my cabinets out on my CNC router. I do plan on having carved panel doors on some of the cabinets but use conventions rail and style shapers (non-CNC) to do the doors.

Build the right kind of library and you may find your efforts have value for other cabinet shops.

Tom Caudle
www.CandCNC.com
Woodworker, Metalworker, Hack Machinist, Engineer, CNC Geek.

[Hyrum R]

The thing is, I don't believe the CNC will be that great of a time-saver for me if I have to spend several hours figuring out the drawings and toolpaths by hand. Since I consider myself a reasonably good programmer, rather than draw my drawings by hand, I figure I may as well try to create some software to do it for me and automatically nest the parts and create the toolpaths based off the cabinet sizes & type I enter.

I'm not totally sure about KCDw, but I think that if you want to do doors, there's another addon for several thousand $$$ as well. I could get the CNC link for the $9k and then import the .dxf files into Sheetcam, but that's still $9k dollars! I'm not going to be using my CNC for raised panel doors, as I feel that's still best taken care of with a shaper unless you have a super fancy expensive (more $$$$$) machine. The main thing I want this to do is to cut all the parts for the cabinet box, including dadoes, toe-kick notches, lazy susan shelves, etc. Basically all sheet-goods.

As for my software, to start with, it's going to be very customized to the way I do things. Once I get that going well, then I'll slowly add in more customization options, and hopefully have a program that others might find useful.

[Rypper]

Hyrum,

Before you commit to the EZ-Router which is just an older Shopbot clone.
Take a look at the new ShopBot PRS it is a totally new design an is the price range you are looking.
http://www.shopbottools.com/

Also the is many reasonably priced programs already developed and currently being developed for cabinet building.
http://home.centurytel.net/bwclark/
http://www.flexcabs.com/


There is tremendous support on the forum and man cabinet builders to get help from.
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/discus.cgi

Hope this helps,

Tom