Quintax OR DMS

[Allen Crabtree]

I am in the market for a large 5 axis CNC router and have narrowed it down to either Quintax OR DMS (Diversified Machine Systems). I would like to hear from anyone out there that might have some experience with one or both of these companies. I have considered a Thermwood but they appear to be light duty and have no liquid-cooled spindle options. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

[ConKbot of Doom]

I work with a DMS and a few thermwoods at work. Just say no to thermwoods... These machines are aging, but .0015" of backlash in the z axis, the head moves .020 or so with the push of one finger on the side of the spindle, and they go out of tram (proper alignment of the 4th axis and 5th axis, dont know if that is a proper term, or a company term) the second you put a piece of solid metal on the table Even flycutting .010 or so off the table, you run the risk of knocking it out of tram.
Plus even with a toolchanger, what I've seen as far as programming has been... a shocker. Having to manually set the tool height after each change, and add a line to the program with the hand-held programmer, and use a G92 to set the height. No fixture offsets, you have to edit the program and put in the setpoint for the program that way. I don't know if its changed, but one of our newer machines from them (runs on XP instead of OS/2 warp) is the same still.

Plus if you want to do simultaneous 5-axis machining, the head will shudder and jerk a ton if you start getting the feed rates up...

Good decision passing on the thermwood. I haven't priced them, but from what I hear, they are pretty pricey.



The DMS I work with has everything I would expect from a 'real' cnc machine. Tables for the tool length and diameter offsets, 12 position ATC in ours, fixture offsets instead of mucking around with G92's. The head is very stiff, and it handles 5-axis machining no problem, no shuddering or shaking unless you have a very quick feed, and a program with a bunch of short moves right in a row.

It is well-behaved, like a CNC should be, unlike the thermwoods, which seem like they like to do their own thing every now and then, I had one just start speeding off on the X-axis, even though the part was a little 12" part on the near side of the table, or random crashes from the Z-axis deciding it wants to eat the table. It's a good week if you haven't had to hit the e-stop one one of the thermwoods. They have recently replaced the handheld programmers, and it hasn't been so bad, but I still think thermwoods HHP is a bad design.
The DMS has only had 2 different oddities neither of which did any damage or caused any real downtime. The main-menu and escape buttons occasionally stop working. They start working after you E-stop the machine, and today, I accidentally lightly bumped the E-stop on the pendant, it didn't e-stop the machine, but it did kill the feed. An E-stop and reset fixed that too...

The DMS is a great machine, I have nothing bad to say about it, we run the hell out of it 24 hours a day and it takes it fine. The automatic pivot point compensation is nice, don't know if its on the other machines you're looking at or not. But I heard around that the DMS we got was a ton cheaper then a thermwood of the same size.

[todd71]

The DMS looks solid. http://www.5axiscncrouter.com/5axisC...vingtable.html

ConkBOT, does yours have the dual moving tables? If so, hows the function and repeatablitiy. Also, does it have a chip conveyor? Looks like a time efficient set up.

Thanks,
Todd

[ConKbot of Doom]

Originally Posted by todd71 The DMS looks solid. http://www.5axiscncrouter.com/5axisC...vingtable.html ConkBOT, does yours have the dual moving tables? If so, hows the function and repeatablitiy. Also, does it have a chip conveyor? Looks like a time efficient set up. Thanks, Todd

yeah, we got the dual moving tables, because management thought it would be a grand idea to get it so we could set up a fixture on one table, while it runs on the other... nevermind we need to have an indicator in the spindle to align the fixture and to find the setpoint.

No chip conveyor, just a poor excuse of a dust extraction system that maintenance made.
The dual tables do work fine, but we have them slaved all the time, I havent even used the machine without the y and the v axis slaved (v is the second table) I havent checked repeatability, but at least it goes to what you tell it to... The repeatability is good enough that we dont have to check the setpoint every day and watch it 'move' .010-.015" or so like the thermwoods love to do.

[ossito]

I work with a 5-axis (and 3-axis) quintax machine with Fagor 8055 controller.


Pros:For the most part the machine is a beast and runs like the energizer bunny. Our machine runs 24 hours/ 5 days a week cutting 1/2" polyethylene most of the time. Even cut some aluminum some time, but that takes a long time.

Cons: Service, service, service. Getting parts takes forever and forget calling about service, I never get a return call. I (and the company I work for) am new to this cnc stuff, one year now and there are times I need a little help. If it wasn't for Google, CNC Zone, and Onsrud I would be screwed. Also there is an excellent cnc consultant we can go to for service on the cnc and controller. He is very good and patient with helping me with the machine.

[jaushaug]

I worked for DMS for several years. I am now independent, providing service, training, retrofits, consulting etc on DMS & Motionmaster routers. I also do all of DMS' warranty service which is kind of like the Maytag guy, maybe a job every other month. I hear a parts/service related complaint about Quintax, Komo, and Thermwood from my customers every week. A complaint about DMS is very rare. They have factory phone tech support Mon-Fri 8-4:30 CST and 99% of calls are handled same day, usually within 30 minutes. There are ways to make the twin table set-up very productive. The tables have a grid of threaded inserts which allow you to position fixturing in same location and use same offset values every set-up. Very fast set-ups are easily attainable.

[jaushaug]

Also, my job at DMS included alignment and calibration. Every axis positions and repeats <.001 from factory.

[RonnyM82]

Are any of you guys aware of the Thermwood Model 90 5-axis machine? i saw one in action at their factory last week. Its a noticeably more massive machine than the Model 67, and i had them surfacing aluminium billet in full simultaneous 5-axis. It handled it fine, however, i was disgusted at how slow the rapid speed was. any comments?