EZ-Router??

[SCT]

Hi,
I'm looking for any and all feedback about the EZ-Router products and their support (www.ez-router.com). Does anybody here own one of these machines? Do they have any common problems or downfalls?
From what I have seen, the EZ-Router looks like a better machine than a shopbot at a better price. I've looked at the more expensive units (shopsaber, techno, etc.) and it seems the biggest difference is the addition of ball screw drives. The EZ is a R&P system, but ballscrews have their own problems too. So why not go with the cheap machine with all the extras for what the others are charging for a table without legs or a router, right?

Thanks for your imput!

[conceptmachine]

sct,
ez-router is a good machine, i almost baught one myself! I went with a shopbot because the customer service/shopbot forum are awesome.I couldnt be happier with my bot.shopbot has a new prs model out now check it out before you make a descision .

[conceptmachine]

forgot to say...
most every machine has problems,even ones costing 100k plus thats why i went with shopbot so when i do have a problem or question the answer is a mouse click away...my .02 worth.
ps.. im in no way saying ez-router is not a good machine

[Zumba]

You should take a closer look at the specs of the machines. The Shopbot PRT Alpha is a MUCH faster machine. It rapids twice as fast, almost 2000 IPM I believe, vs 800 for the EZ. The Shopbot uses Japanese made Vexta steppers with the "alpha" closed loop system.

I'll admit I'm not a fan of either of these machines... I don't like how they're constructed. They scream "cheap" to me and have inherent accuracy issues by using v-rollers and R&P. Worse yet is the design of the gantry. Rather than making the gantry 12"+ tall with a flat bed, they basically build an 8 inch "wall" along the side of the machine so that the gantry only needs to be around 4" tall. This allows them to build a wimpier gantry (save on material costs) at the expense of poor access to the table. It may seem trivial to first time CNC-buyer, but the 8" wall can be REALLY annoying.

Regardless, between the two, I'd choose the Shopbot without hesitation. I will never choose a knockoff over the original unless it's a lot better, and with the EZ, better it is not. Just cheaper.

[conceptmachine]

zumba,
I'll have to say from my experience using my shopbot that i have never had any problems with accuracy.every time i have checked a part it has been no more than .005 out of spec.as far as being cheaply made i will agree and disagree if you compare the shopbot to a thermwood then yes it's made cheap.but it cost 100k less.for an entry level cnc router you cant expect it to be built like a big industrial router or would it be fair to compare it to one.

[Joe Crumley]

Here's the skinny on Shopbot:

The company is full of nice people and the support is B+. They've been available for phone support and courtious every time I've called. But if you buy one of these kit, you're going to need the support. Even with five years of Shopbot experience, I had to call last week. It was a software problem. Nothing could be done. This is a regular proplem since the Windows Program & controller are very weak. Ted Hall, the owner, is dedicated to the original little DOS program which is way too small. No matter how many Geco's you slap on their board, it's dinkey.

One interesting fact is the difference in problems each user comes up with. Since it comes as a kit, each unit has it's own personality. One owner may experience problems the one next door doesn't. But they all have the common out of square issue. This is a bolt together unit and will NOT stay square when given a few good bumps. The answer it to invite your local welder to stick it together. Once this is done it will run much smoother and sound smoother also.

The Shopbot Forum is a jewel. It's been the watering hole where we could visit to see what others were doing. Although there a few scraps, all in all, it's been fun. However the forum is a Shopbot necessity, as most posts concerned how to keet the thing going. A quick review of the posts shows how many problems people are having. Allways breaking down on a regular basis.

Quality of Cut: For years Shopbot has been plagued with poor cuts. I don't know how many hours we all spent making Shopbots advised adjustments for smoother cuts. This is generally seen or radiuses. We would slow it up and down. We'd make clean up passes. Grease the wheels, then go for the sandpaper. Then came the Alpha which was designed for rapid cutting with no improvement to smoother cutting. Absolutely NONE. Shopbot got itself in a corner with direct dirve which increased it travel speed but nothing for cleaner cuts. With an enemic pulse rate coming from the Old DOS controller, that transfered slow pulses directly to motors resulting in poor cutting. That's where Mach and the Ascension 1000 opens the Bot up to a whole new level.

As for speed: Alpha is NOT faster than one of the older PRT's coupled with an Ascension 1000. I know this from experience. Also the Alpha isn't as fast as the EZ Router. They are close however. Really though, speed has little to do with making money for the average user. What will cost you bucks is loss of steps, sanding parts, controller shut downs, and the necessity for continual up-grades. Did I mention Sanding, sanding, sanding, and more sanding?

I complement Shopbot for opening up the field to the little guy but it's a Pee Shooter at best. Ez is much the same but many times better for thousands less.

Lets not count out ShopSabre. Although I haven't any first hand experience with this unit but have talked with a couple of owners. My first question was how much support is needed and how hours a week did the router run. Both were industrial use. One was an artist who's unit was equiped witha tool changer. He turns it on each morning for the 3D files and let it go each morning. The only problem he had was with the tool changer when it was installed. From there it was clear sailing.

J.
www.normansignco.com

[SCT]

Thanks for the great info guys. I looked at the shopsabre and it is a good looking machine with great reviews ...but a price to match. 12K does not include a router, legs for the table, or even limit switches. EZ is offering a welded table with ALL the extras and delivered for 16K. And it seems the welded table may be worth more than I thought. I hadn't considered the raised side rails as a problem, and for me I don't think they would be too invasive. I cut .25" acrylic about 90% of the time so a bigger issue for me would be the edge finish.

The sound of a sander kicking on triggers crys and moans in my shop. Although you can effectivly sand acrylic, it isn't pretty. Therefore I've been trying to determine if the EZ would deliver a satisfactory edge on straight and radius edges. They claim a "Step Resolution: (.0005)" Does this mean 2000 steps per inch? What kind of resolution would produce a clean edge? The EZ utilizes Mach 3 but I haven't gotten any info on the step motor drivers, or is that the 'resolution'? How does this compare with the Ascention?

[Joe Crumley]

I'm not sure how you came up with the costs of either of the CNC's. I re-visited both of these and didn't see how you came up with the totals.

I purchased my 5'X10' with a 5Hp Colombo and several exta's which came in at 13K.

Joe Crumley
www.normansignco.com

[drmosh]

My opinion (and it's only mine, and most people on this forum probably think it's a pretty lame one) is that the speeds, steps, resolution, etc. are too abstract, moderately confusing, and in MANY cases don't equate to what a machine does "in real life, in my shop". You have a business and you know exactly what you need the machine to do in order for it to be a great investment. If the ezRouter machine works as advertised, and gives you the cut quality that you want, you'll probably be hard pressed to find another machine cheaper (that is, so significantly cheaper that it's worth your continued time and energy to look for it). If ezRouter had a 100% money back guarantee on cutting quality, for only an extra 3% cost, would you buy it? Of course you would, because that's only an extra $480 based on your estimate. Which happens to be about the price (probably) of flying to their place in TX for a one-day visit to check out the machine. Sooo....

If you're ready to buy, call them and let them know what you're cutting, what kind of cuts/shapes you need, finish expectations and everything else you need/want it to do. If they say that it will do what you want then give them the following offer:

You fly down there and see them cut similar material. bring a new cutter with you that you've purchased based on their recommendations, along with some samples of the actual acrylic you use in your shop. if it meets your expectaions you put a deposit down on the spot. if it doesnt, then they reimburse you for the airplane ticket.

if they're not willing to do that then call shopbot because I'd bet they would. if *you're* not willing to do that then you're still shopping

Again, it's just my opinion, but I really feel that far too many people get sucked up into an endless loop of numbers/specs/engineering "overanalysis". It's just a machine. Buy it based on it's actual, demonstrated performance against your business needs, and it's expected ROI for your business. It will or will not be a sound purchase based on those two factors like everything else in your shop.

Good Luck!!!!

[SCT]

Re: Pricing

Ez does show a 5x10 table w/ 5hp spindle shown at $13,500. (comparible to your purchase)

Shopsabre shows the 4896 starting at $12,195. According to the quote I recieved from the company, this price is for table, gantry, and carrige only.

My qoute from EZ includes
-4x8 table
-vacuum bed
-10hp vacuum pump
-3.25hp pc router
-2hp dust collector system
-computer w/mach3
-z setter
-bobcad-cam software
-crating and freight
Seems like the complete package to me.

the same setup from shopbot (+servos, -computer) was $21,500.

Drmosh:

I absolutely agree with your recommendation. And thank you for reminding me that actual performance trumps all the figures and numbers.
I will absolutly take the trip to TX to see a machine before buying, I would not do it any other way.

I am still shopping though. I will be going to the sign expo in vegas and want to be as prepared as possible to buy a machine then. I believe I will probably be able to get the best price there. However, EZ will not be there . They will be at the AWFS later this year.

always thankful for the imput!

[Joe Crumley]

SCT,

I'm still confused on the price of the EZ. It's not that I doubt your post but my 5'X10' was $9,500. Add on the Columbo Spridle at $4000. Mine came in at, with a few extra's at $14,000. Something isn't adding up here.

Also, I've run a router for years and would encourage you to consider using a spindle. The EZ comes with Mach 3 which is a world away from the small DOS program which drives the Shopbot. I can't tell you how many work hours I've lost due to the little, weak program.

drmosh is right on target with his suggestion. Like he suggested I called EZ and drove down to their little plant to see for myself. I brought materials and files for them to carve. They were very gracious and happy to spend as much time as needed to answer my questions.

If I had a large budget I'd consider MultiCam. However I've been building my company with the PEE SHOOTERS. My first hand experience is EZ is way ahead.





The Shopbot with your add-on's would be what?

[braidmeister]

Originally Posted by Joe Crumley Here's the skinny on Shopbot: The company is full of nice people and the support is B+. They've been available for phone support and courtious every time I've called. But if you buy one of these kit, you're going to need the support. Even with five years of Shopbot experience, I had to call last week. It was a software problem. Nothing could be done. This is a regular proplem since the Windows Program & controller are very weak. Ted Hall, the owner, is dedicated to the original little DOS program which is way too small. No matter how many Geco's you slap on their board, it's dinkey.

Joe,
ShopBot hasn't used a DOS interface for a number of years now. Your 5+ year old PRT with 1/4 stepping drivers is not an accurate assessment of ShopBot's current technology & quality. If you are going to compare, do it apples to apples. There are many inaccuracies in your assessment of the ShopBot. You can't compare 7 or 8yr old technology with what is being sold today. The glorified Gecko/Mach/Ascension offering is no different than the upgrade that ShopBot offers for older PRT tools. Retrofit new microstepping drivers to an old 1/4 stepping system and the improvement is dramatic, regardless of the control software. It is in NO way analogous to an Alpha tool, which by the way NEVER ran on a DOS controller. I've done my own testing with Mach3 on my PRT and Geckos. It showed absolutely ZERO difference in cut quality, speed or overall performance than my ShopBot control board with Geckos and the exact same power supply. You should have just kept your ShopBot and put Geckos on it...the EZRouter is clearly a clone of ShopBot's original PRT design going back 7 or 8yrs. Add some green paint and you're all set. It in no way compares to ShopBot's new PRS CNC which makes the EZ look...well...7 or 8yrs old.

For those looking for a new CNC in the same price range as the EZRouter, ShopBot PRS Alpha & ShopSabre, go see a live demo & make up your own mind. You'll know what tool is right for you by seeing it in action, cutting your parts in your material. Ask them to show you how they toolpath it, what design software it comes with etc.

I have several ShopBot CNCs and they make me a lot of money. I cut plastic & hardwood parts for the mouse in FL, carbon for a leading automotive aftermarket and at the moment I am cutting 50,000 letters in Sintra PVC. No toolmarks, cusps, chatter or anything else that I have to make excuses for as the parts go out the door. You don't get to do business with these companies unless you can put out a good product. I've run ShopBot CNCs for 5yrs and have had exactly ZERO days downtime.

-Brady