little help please router tables

[m!ni]

Ive gone from wanting to buy a router table, to being totaly sure that i want to make one, then i swing around and want to buy one again. I could do with some help, i do have a few ideas myself.

If i buy a machine i could get;
1, HIGH-Z S-1000 it's german (im in uk) cuts 600x1000 £2400 inc controler and software plus motors, but shafts are unsupported.


2, Rhonmac-cnc will make a table router 18"x24" again unsupported shafts. Price is £1729.00 not inc motors, software or controler. 2mm pitch high ress.
http://www.rhonmac-cnc.co.uk/

3, k2 2525 £3700 or near enough and yes i know the 3925 would be better but the price is way over my head.

Is paying more for the k2 2525 really worth it ? Im going to have to use the abba set up.

Please help im excited but dont quite know what to do with myself

[drmosh]

I recently went through a very similar thought process. I did an insane amount of reading and research (almost for one year) before deciding to buy instead of build. Once I made that decision I never looked back. My reasoning was as follows...

I came into the cnc space as a result of looking for ways to improve my business. I had no cnc background, and was not interested in it prior as a hobby. Even though I am very mechanically inclined, I'm not afraid of electronics, very good with computers, etc... I ultimately realized that I was being "seduced" by the idea of building my own machine. It dawned on me that I was considering building the single most sophisticated and complicated machine in my shop, even though under no circumstances would I have *ever* thought of building any other piece of equipment. I also realized that, based on other people's comments, just getting the machine into the shop was half the battle - the other half is learning and using it effectively.

My advice, in a nutshell, is that if you are using this for your business then your primary, secondary, and COMPLETE goal is to get it in your door and make money with it. Nothing else. If this is the case then it's no different than a hammer or telephone or any other capital investment. Remember what your business is - it's NOT building cnc machines. You will get very little ROI on the time and effort of building your own. Your ROI will only come once the machine is in production, making you a product you sell. So forget the romance. Find the one with the most features suitable for your use, for the best cost, and buy it.

If you're NOT going to use it in your business, but simply want to play around and have fun with one, I would STILL recommend you buy one - but this time buy the smallest and simplest one you can find and learn the basics. Then, build a bigger one (using the first to help machine the parts) and sell the first one off. There's an active market for these things on eBay - I would be very suprised if you had any difficulty selling it used.

Hope the feedback is helpful - don't be suprised when the next person posting to this thread has a completely different answer!

mt

[m!ni]

You have got some great points there, i totaly agree with you. Its good to have it spelt out by somone else, that was in the same boat. Thanks very much for taking the time to get back to me.

Now im 100% that im going to buy, just dont know what to go for yet. Ive seen many smallish cnc router tables, and im sure i wil make a decision soon.

Any tips what to buy for around £3000 ? and around the 600x1000mm size ? Im starting to feel the influence of K2 and their machines.

[drmosh]

My advice would be to really try hard to remove any obstacles from being able to easily purchase, receive, setup and initially use the machine in your shop. Even if you have to use more money (which is only useful for converting to something else anyway) to buy "easy and simple", do it.

I've heard nothing but good things about k2, but they are not in your timezone, not in your country, not in your currency, you couldn't drive to them to see the machine even if you wanted to, etc. etc. All these items work against the "easy and simple" mandate.

The company in the UK you listed looks like a perfectly reasonable machine. No customs delays, no currency conversions, same timezone, same electrics, etc. etc. Plus, if you wanted to visit them and place your order while you were there that is obviously possible without crossing the Atlantic
They have some good pictures of their shop so obviously they are doing *something* right.

My advice would be to go to them and try to buy the most off-the-shelf and standard small machine they have. Buy everything you can through them - spindle/router, controllers, everything. If they have it - buy it. So what if you pay 10% or 15% more. Those are just less things they can screw up, or more importantly YOU can screw up by parting it out across multiple vendors. In fact, you should even consider buying the computer through them if you can. If not, then buy it yourself, set it up and install Mach3, then ship it to them (or take it to them) and let them use it when they test the machine.

Even if you get a machine that is perfectly setup and you plug it in at your shop and it is 100% ready to go, you will still be sitting there at 10:00pm at night on the first day thinking "ok now what". You're no different than me - didn't know gcode, feeds/speeds, bits, had never even made a single cut on a machine in my life!!!! Do whatever you can to get up to that point as easily and with as little risk as possible. Then a year from now, when you're super cnc guy, then you can buy from anybody and feel confident that if something goes wrong or isn't right you can correct it yourself.

Good Luck!
mt

[sploo]

Hi m!ni,

I have a K2 KG3925 currently in delivery (apparently it's in the UK now, and about to inspected by Customs).

I was lucky enough to be able to see an earlier one of their 3925 machines, as a guy in London let me visit his place.

I'm in south Oxfordshire, so if that's practical for you, you'd be welcome to come and see the machine when I get it up and running.

[m!ni]

Hey sploo, thats sounds great thanks ! Keep in touch and let me know how things go. It would be great to see one in action. What kind of stuff will you be cutting with it ? Im after one to help with cutting guitars and guitar parts.

I bet your going crazy waiting for your 3925, its funnny i saw my first advert for xmas today (DAMN ARGOS !) must be like xmas eve for you !

[m!ni]

I should have said, i really dont see any other alternative to k2.

[sploo]

I've just had a call from UPS, letting me know that it should be delivered on Wednesay.

To be honest, I've not been that desperate to get my hands on it just yet. I decided I really needed to install a decent dust extraction system in my garage, and bought a large impellor based blower. Unfortunately, I then realised I needed to rewire the garage in order to provide a supply with enough juice!

Having done that, I've not yet installed any ducting, and I had hoped to get that in before the machine turned up.

I have a few ideas for parts. The main one was making loudspeaker cabinets - especially some strangely shaped stuff I'm thinking about doing.

I came to the same conclusion over the alternatives (to K2). There is stuff like ShopBot and ShopSabre, but they appear to be bigger (more expensive) machines, more suited to professionals.

All the stuff I could find in Europe tended to be very lightweight (e.g. suitable only for cutting model aircraft parts) or very slow (i.e. 60ipm).

What you need to factor with a US purchase is that the shipping will be anything from 300-1000USD (depending on size, weight etc.) and that you'll pay import duty and VAT on the cost of the machine+shipping.

[m!ni]

Wednesday..... wow ! Did you take the day off from work ? I would have taken at least a week off lol.

Funny you should say about dust extraction i bought this last week,

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-A...ctor-21167.htm


Its a good little machine for the price inc a fine dust filter bag too. I use it on a drum sander and a bandsaw (all in the garage) and it works very well.

About the shipping K2 said its about $450 but i quess after its been taxed its going to be alot more. There is a thread on this forum about the cost to the UK, i dont know what the final cost was. (Im sure you have seen it anyway).

Anyway im well jealous... Good luck for wednesday

[sploo]

Originally Posted by m!ni; Wednesday..... wow ! Did you take the day off from work ? I would have taken at least a week off lol.

*LOL*

To be honest, I want to perform a few checks before I plan any time off for a serious 'play'. The only downside to K2's stuff is that I've heard of quite a few people that have received equipment that's been damaged in transit, or something otherwise not working. I do then hear very positive things about K2's good attitude and helpfulness in getting things sorted, but the realist in me isn't going to count any chickens until I get it running.

Originally Posted by m!ni; Funny you should say about dust extraction i bought this last week,

OK. Let me scare you a bit:

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/Index.cfm

To summarise - most of the hobbyist dust extractors are little more than dust pumps - as they blow all the really fine (dangerous) dust straight through their filter bags.

That sort of unit is fine, as long as you put it outside while you work. Otherwise I'd strongly recommend wearing a good canister mask while you work.

Bill favours using a cyclone to separate the fine dust from the chippings (which drop into a bin) and then the dust is either put through a really good filter, or ejected outside.

I can't fit a cyclone in my garage, so I'm going a slightly different route, but all dirty air will be going into a collector outside (i.e. I'm not filtering and returning any air).

Originally Posted by m!ni; About the shipping K2 said its about $450 but i quess after its been taxed its going to be alot more. There is a thread on this forum about the cost to the UK, i dont know what the final cost was. (Im sure you have seen it anyway).

Yea, I didn't want to specify the exact price as K2 indicated it was with a discount (not fair on them if I give away their discount prices). However, as you have that info, I can confirm that was the shipping price I paid for the 3925 (which is pretty good when you look at the US shipping price).

Originally Posted by m!ni; Anyway im well jealous... Good luck for wednesday

You won't be jealous of my bank balance

Cheers though. Will let everyone know how it goes when it turns up.

[m!ni]

Common lets us know is it there yet ?

That extractor will be going outside soon, in a sound proof box too. I wear a good mask, as my dad and grandad both suffered from emphacima i understand just how important saftey is.

[sploo]

Originally Posted by m!ni Common lets us know is it there yet ?

Yup! See: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showth...283#post213283

Originally Posted by m!ni That extractor will be going outside soon, in a sound proof box too. I wear a good mask, as my dad and grandad both suffered from emphacima i understand just how important saftey is.

That sounds great. I was amazed to learn just how dangerous dust collectors are. I always assumed my dustbin sized unit was keeping me safe, so to learn that it's actually pumping the dust around the garage was quite scary.

Now that I wear a mask (http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...77073&id=21462) I feel OK after working. When I don't, I can feel my throat is rough, and usually feel pretty bad.