Gerber AR400

[steve_p]

hi there, I'm new to cnc, and was thinking of making a machine (checking out all the useful info on this forum), but then a small job came up that meant it would be useful to get one straight away, so I bought a Gerber AR400 off ebay (4x4 foot bed). It came with Gerber's own software (Composer and Artpath), which does 2D stuff fine (I'm just learning, and it seems capable of most 2D work I'd need to do, and simple to use- I was cutting within an hour of plugging it in, and that included the software install..)

However, I'd like to do some relief work, but it seems that Gerber's older routers use their own proprietary code (not g-code), so many of the common (and cheap!) CAM packages won't drive them. I read somewhere that Artcam might, and I'm waiting to hear back from them about it. It seems to run its code through the Gerber Spooler (?) before it gets to the router. But it's probably too expensive for the amount of work I'd do with it.

I'm sure my machine is capable of 3D (it's just a stepper motor, after all), so I'm hoping someone on this forum might have experience of driving an older Gerber from some other CAM software.

Otherwise, I thought I could make a new CNC controller, and retro-fit. (I was even thinking of using a bank of solid-state switches to toggle the steppers between the Gerber controller and a new one, so I could still use the Gerber software while I was getting the retro-fit to work properly.

Any advice would be appreciated.

steve

[Torchhead]

If twere me I would consider a separate controller-Power supply with motor drives and have plugs on the motors. ArtCam has priced themselves out of the lower end market. An interesting and up coming substitue is Vcarve at $495. Also Rhino 3D is a good 3D drawing and modeling package and Meshcam is an affordable 3D cam.

Vcarve will cut files done in other 3D Programs.

Also checkout the 3D clipart at www.Vectorart.com

Tom Caudle
www.CandCNC.com

[Tony Mac]

Hi Steve,

Afraid I don't think VCarve Pro can be used with the Gerber AR400 because the control system is proprietary / closed, as you rightly say.

The New Gerber Sabre Routers now have an option to be run using standard G-Code, but I'm not sure if this firmware (operating system) is available for the smaller machines. You could try contacting Gerber to ask whether this firmware is available for your machine.

For reference ArtCAM does include a special Gerber Spooler driver.

I Hope this helps,

Tony

Thanks Tom for recommending VCarve Pro.

[steve_p]

Thanks Tom and Tony,

Nice to get feedback from people who know their stuff- great forum, this, been reading it for hours!

Seems to confirm what I thought- it's a bit of a shame because the guy selling the machine had two of them for sale, but I ended up paying twice what the other one cost because only mine came with the controller and software. If I now remove the controller it might have been better to get the other one (it was in worse condition, however.). But at least I can get used to the general principles of designing and cutting on a machine that worked as soon as I plugged it in...

I checked out your CandCNC site, Tom, and was found your products really interesting, not least because one of the ideas I had in mind when buying the machine was to attempt to put a plasma torch on it. I see you sell a torch height controller for a reasonable price. It's starting to look like I should be thinking of shifting to a new controller and Mach3...? On this note, do people generally use a dedicated machine for plasma, or is it feasible to change over between jobs? (I have a vacuum bed, so I'd have to work out a system for removing it quickly). What kind of metal mesh/grating is most commonly used as a cutting bed?

Any more comments would be appreciated, particularly from anyone with experience of Gerber's Advantage machines.

Steve

[Torchhead]

Steve there are a lot of dual purpose machines being sold. I can tell you from experience that unless you just don't have space for two machines and don't mind cleaning up completely after using either, that a dual use machine is kinda like a combo microwave oven and washing machine. I built my table several years ago to be a router/plasma and wish I had made it just a plasma machine (which it has become). So it's an over powered plasma cutter that is too slow for some cutting on thinner metal.

Router jobs can run for hours. Plasma jobs are finished in minutes.

One of the the things the plasma vendors won't tell you is how nasty and messy the process is and how you really need to plan on extensive dust and smoke removal and a water table for sparks and hot smoking fallouts. Any exposed surface gets a coating of the volcanic black abrasive dust.

[steve_p]

thanks tom,

maybe a combo machine is too much to ask, as you say.

i've got a big 3 phase dust extractor plumbed around my workshop, so i think fumes and smoke could be contained reasonably well.

i had thought of using a metal grid suspended above a fireproof ceramic board on top of the vacuum bed to speed up change-over (ie not removing the vacuum bed at all), along with shielding around all parts of the router, but the speed question you brought up is probably the clincher- especially since my machine is quite old, and probably slower than yours. i hadn't thought of that.

i'll keep that one on the back-burner for now...

however, in the meantime i have found out that artcam does indeed drive my router directly, so that's an option (albeit an option that costs more than i can justify right now for the work i will put it to. but that might change.)

i'll keep you posted when i've decided which way to go...

thanks for your comments,

steve

[big_tel]

Hi
Not read every post on your question or all your question properly.
but gerber do thier own 3d package for artpath called autocarve, it is actually part of artparth but is not activated with the normal dongle, you need the dongle altered so it allows autocarve to work or an exchange dongle, i dont know what they charge for this.

Tel

[Smackre]

I have a Gerber Sprinter 800. Its realy old. I think its around 15yrs old. The software was a pain and old. So i scrapted it out. Bought a new controller and use mach3. Cost me about 3000$ to convert. But i also replaced all the linear rails because they were rusted realy bad. The controller cost me about 1300$.

If you ask me. It was well worth the convert. The machine is like brand new now. Anything i can program it can do. No limations of software and etc.

[Tig]

Speaking of Gerber tables,
has anyone looked at the these for conversion: Lot of 3 Gerber Drafting Plotter Tables 20' x 8' two of them: Model 79s are presently set up with camera heads for digitizing part drawings. The other: Model 77 is I think set up with a printing head as a large format plotter. They were apparently custom built by Gerber for the Boeing aircraft company in Seattle Wash. back in the early 80s. They are presently being stored at the Nelson Trucking Co. Seattle, WA. I went and had a look at them myself. They appear to be well built, but I couldn't get any information as to their internal construction. The table appears to be built of heavy Aluminum Tube or channel? The underside is enclosed to the full depth of the table sides making a quick visual inspection impractical. I tried contacting both Gerber, and Boeing, but no one could give me any information. Gerber thought that they were a custom order and had no drawings or documentation to offer. The tables are fitted out with light integrated rack/track on the X-axis, and a ball screw on the Y-axis. They look like they could easily be fitted out with a small: router / laser / knife. I was thinking of fitting it out with a bigger router by replacing the lighter drive system on the X-axis with THK linear rails and Atlanta precision rack, but without knowing how heavy the they are constructed, it's impossible to know what their ultimata potential is. So I decided against even making an offer.

They can still be seen on ebay, Item number: 150025473149

[big_tel]

looking at them, there is not much clearance between the beam and the bed for routing materials other than something thin,take a look at other routers and you will see what i mean, shame as they look very interesting, of course they are ideal for the purpose they were made for, you just need to find a few companies that require full size large patern drawings then it would be worth bidding on them

Tel

[Tig]

Thanks Tel,
I assumed it was a given, that if one was able to take on the task of retrofitting the tables, that fitting a couple of parallel spacing blocks to get the desired Z high would be a no brainer.
When I was phoning around to the various service personnel that had serviced these machines, I was hopping that one of them had taken one apart and could describe its construction, one of the techs said that several similar sized old Gerber tables have been refitted with inexpensive step and direction drivers, and were using Mach as the controller. They are apparently being used successfully to cut sail cloth, and other heavy fabrics at a fraction of the cost of an OEM retrofit.