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Thread: Thom Carr 4 Axis CNC

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plazmo View Post
    Ok, here are some of the parts I have photographed, these are actual parts from a garage made Thom Carr Art Router.
    looks very nice! tom will appreciate it!



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    So glad to hear your thoughts, "looks very nice! tom will appreciate it!"

    Here at my end I am very happy to inform those who may be considering making a purchase, not only is this a weakly designed product it is outright DANGEROUS. I hope nobody gets seriously injured by his products because PRODUCT LIABILITY could bankrupt his small operation unless he has a multimillion dollar product liability insurance policy.

    A President said "information is a distraction" if you believe that statement you will make poor purchasing decisions. Don't be fooled by fluff!



  3. #63
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    Default Your machine is the old design where did you buy it?

    Your machine is the old design.

    Where did you find it Ebay or Craigslist?

    I don't know about your machine but it isn't Thoms new design or at least it isn't anything like the new machine I bought from Tom last year.

    Your machine looks exactly like my 5 year old machine the 4x4 which is still running after 5 years.

    My "NEW" little machine has all steel gears and all steel racks? Also in your pictures the router mount is the old design. On my new machine it has a totally different router mount than the one you have shown? I previously posted pictures wiht lots of sawdust onthe machines.

    My old machine has the same setup as the machine you showed pictures of? Of course mine is running.

    Your machine looks like someone didn't set it up correctly and tore it up. Your racks show excessive wear probably due to overtightening the drive gears. See the nylon shreds hanging off and the flattened teeth... This happened to me on my first machine from Thom too.... Same dumb mistake over tightening the drive gears on the Y-axis which flattens the teeth. I think thisis why Thom redsigned his machine with a all steel geartrain as a lot of folks coudn't align them for one reason or another. .

    Thom replaced the parts free and talked me though the setup. Matter of fact he is going to upgrade my old 4x4 machine to the new design with a new gantry for a little more than cost. Can't wait!!!

    Thoms new machines are far different than the one you have pictured. My new machine worked right out of the box and is still running after 500 hours runtime.

    I'm thinking to myself that you either bought one of his older machines OR you found it on Ebay or Craigslist. Obviously someone messed it up pretty bad. I'll bet the Y axis jammed consistantly.... How much hair did you pull out trying to get it to run? hahahahahaha

    I did talk to Thom the other day as I was having problems with my "new" old
    5ft x 10ft 1998 shopbot that I bought this past weekend. Thom was nice enough to offer to help me with a few tips on Mach3. I normally use KCAm as it is faster to setup than Mach3...But Mach3 controlls the motors better... Anyway I bought this new machine last week as I got it for a heck of a price and I wanted to do "BIG" projects. I would have bought one from Thom but he doesn't make them this big and as I said the price was such that I couldn't pass it up.

    I told Thom about your post and he simply said that if anyone has a problem with his machine to call him and he will help. Thom is too nice of a guy and he has been there time and again when I needed support or parts.

    So there ya go; tells you a lot about Thom. Even though folks bad mouth his machines he is still willing to help. So if I were in your shoes with your machine I would call Thom and I am sure he would probably help.

    PS,

    I posted pictures in a previous post that has Thoms new design, you can "CLEARLY" see the difference between your machine and Thoms new machine design. The new machines have ALL steel rails and gears, A totally different router mount, and is by far a more robust machine by far.....


    Oh Yeah... Did I mention that aThoms new 24x24 machines will actuall cut 28x28.... If everythimg is dialed in. That is a heck of a buy to get a 28x28 for the price of a 24x24.

    You might also ask Thom to send you some of his videos of the things he has cut with the lathe....WOW He is cutting statues!!!!



    Quote Originally Posted by Plazmo View Post
    Ok, here are some of the parts I have photographed, these are actual parts from a garage made Thom Carr Art Router.




  4. #64
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    Default P.S. Care to see a Thom Carr machine running? C'mon over

    For anyone living in the Houston area.

    If you are interested in one of Thoms machines but would like to see one in person "CUTTING" before buying one I have "NO PROBLEM" showing you his machine "the new design" and you can watch it run in person.

    I know you are asking yourself who to believe and you are probably thinking these machines aren't very good. I will say the old design "WAS" really finicky" on setup but the new design is pretty good as I haven' t had any real issues with mine.

    I don't check in with cnczone very often but drop me a message and I will get back with you sooner or later.

    I back Thom the way he has always been there for me and the way he will be there for you. I am always amazed that people don't ask for help and support when there are problems.... You have to ask for help in order to get it...

    No BS seeing is believing.



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    Quote Originally Posted by mlind View Post
    For anyone living in the Houston area.

    If you are interested in one of Thoms machines but would like to see one in person "CUTTING" before buying one I have "NO PROBLEM" showing you his machine "the new design" and you can watch it run in person.

    I know you are asking yourself who to believe and you are probably thinking these machines aren't very good. I will say the old design "WAS" really finicky" on setup but the new design is pretty good as I haven' t had any real issues with mine.

    I don't check in with cnczone very often but drop me a message and I will get back with you sooner or later.

    I back Thom the way he has always been there for me and the way he will be there for you. I am always amazed that people don't ask for help and support when there are problems.... You have to ask for help in order to get it...

    No BS seeing is believing.
    Is this the machine for sale in Dickinson?



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    Default Router in Dickenson

    I see I'm not the only one researching this machine here. Unfortunatly there has only been one person with anything good to say about the ThomCarr machines in general. I think my decision has been made, and I think I'll pass.



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    I wasnt interested but I did see it. OTOH, many people get frustrated with machines, especially if they are new. I am stubborn.



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    Default I see that one too

    Hmmm,

    That looks nice. That is the new router design it looks like a good buy. But that depends on the warranty. If it is out of warranty then it is a bit pricey.

    I would ask the seller about the warranty and get it in writing from both him and Thom Carr before buying.

    As it has never been setup and running the way shipping companies are... ya never know until you inspect and plug it in.

    Just my 2 cents.



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    WOW! I have always heard that dust is a killer for computers. Yours is covered with dust along with everything else. Do you have a web site? You have me burning with curiosity of what you are making.
    BTW, this is my first post, so I am a newbie.



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    Default

    What are you making?



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    Quote Originally Posted by jingles View Post
    What are you making?
    i guess dust!



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    Here are a few questions you should ask before purchasing. Where is the drag chain or other device that keeps the wiring off of the table? Why is the wiring harness is never in view in the pictures or video? Is it because it constantly has to be physically handled to keep it out of the way of the router or other moving parts?

    BUYER BEWARE!!! Don't bet burned



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    Ordered this machine and had to wait 3 months for delivery only to find that the computer system that came with it had the wrong unlicensed OS on it. This caused damage to the router and after a week of waiting for a replacement with no word, I've had it with Thom Carr.



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    Sorry to hear this Tom B. These Thom Carr routers in my opinion are not a quality built cnc. If you open the black box that houses the drivers and power supply it will probably be an unbelievable rats nest of wires, and without any wiring diagram or schematic to help the buyer if something needs to be replaced or adjusted. Another tip-off is in the videos is, why does he only show it cutting foam and no video of this routing actual wood of all types like Pine, Poplar, Maple, Walnut, etc., but he does show samples of wood that is claimed to be routed by his machines. Highly suspect here. This is exactly why I posted the information on these so called cnc routers, so people wound not have the total disappointment of cnc. With a good running machine cnc can be a lot of fun and make you a little money on the side too.



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    I built a Joe hybrid 4x4 3 years ago. My machine blows this commercial unit away. At $2700.00 you get what you pay for. The amount of time folks spend on the phone with Tom you could have built your own.

    Mick



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    WORST ROUTER EVER



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    Default Re: Thom Carr 4 Axis CNC

    i purchased a 4 axis router from tom 3 years ago. I then thought that at that price i would have to upgrade it.when it arrived it wouldnt even boot up. i called tom , he linked up to my pc and got it running.I had endless trouble with missing steps in "z". It wouldnt even come close to doing 3d, To many missing steps in z.I understand everyones frustration with tom and his design and empty promises but we eventually figured out it needed more power. I sent him back the black box (controller) and he upgraded it from 24volt 9amps to 48 volt 18 amps, missing steps gone.Another bad design is the plastic parts especially on the z axis, and the gear and sprocket design. On x and y it seemed to work ok but that design on z is un exceptable. I purchased a linear guide rail system with ball screw on e bay for 220.00, cut that **** design out of there and mounted this unit on. It slowed my rapids up but all problems gone. my machine is 2 ft. x4ft. , i still havent got through the 4th axis but 2d or 3d on flat work in any type of wood works great.all in all I now can do anything electrical or mechanical to my machine if it breaks down. So i didnt mind fixing the issues.If I had to do it again I would build my own and use ball screws and heavier duty stepper motors on all axises but you pay for what you get



  18. #78

    Default Re: Thom Carr 4 Axis CNC

    I bought one of his pieces of **** about 2 years ago and as normal for his substandard machines it to was delivered "damaged". After I fixed the issues putting in bearing housings and new power packs because he wired them incorrectly the machine was tested for movement with the arrow keys on the computer. Being so frustrated by the purchase of blob of metal and plastic it has never made 1 part! It has set in the corner of my shop collecting dust. It hasn't been powered up in over 18 months. Never fall for the "we will teach you like we are there" bull crap if he takes your call its at the oddest times of the day and then its so uninformative you are even more lost. If I were a new purchaser of any CNC equipment I would stay the hell away from Thom Carr Art Router aka blob of **** in the corner of my shop. There are far to many post on many forums that suggest nearly all of his machines are delivered defunct and he never follows thru with the promises. If you are a rookie looking for entry level hoping he will assist you please don't be trapped into his teaching bullcrap. I think his issue is he is a full time "tinkerer" and he tries to send out enough product to keep his tinkering financed. I did contemplate using a port a band and cutting this garbage up and throwing it in the scrap pile last week but I didn't even have the desire to even look at the machine. I paid for an upgraded model with a little larger usable table so I doubly screwed myself. LOL. For anyone who is looking to get into CNC router and is a rookie PLEASE DO YOURSELF A FAVOR AND LOOK ELSE WHERE. I waited 4 months for the machine to arrive and was so frustrated when it was broken it turned into a full on disheartening reminder of you get what you pay for. I really could have bought a comparable machine for a few $100 more and ive seen very few complaints ever listed about that company. So if you want to know if you can trust this man and buy one of his blobs of metal and plastic I will attest to NO! Go elsewhere it will save you a ton of heart ache and maybe even discourage you from trying to learn all together. Being in business for myself for 31 years this is the biggest disappointment in equipment purchase and worst business transaction I have ever made. I don't think if he would have taken my money and never sent the unit it could have been any worse. Maybe it would have been better then I could have just called him a thief and been done with it. Taking delivery I went thru countless hours of repairs and "instruction" from Thom only to never make one piece of product on his CNC blob of metal and plastic setting in my shop. DONT GET BURNED GO SOME WHERE ELSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



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    Default Re: Thom Carr 4 Axis CNC

    Just FYI,

    I am still running my Thom Carr cnc routers after many years with no major issues. My little TC 24x24 cnc router I have been running since ~2008 at more than 30-40 hours per week. Both my Thom Carr cnc routers plus the cnc mogul and my big Shop-Bot are all running great. As I said in the past you need to have some Electro-Mechanical aptitude as well some basic machinist skills or be stubborn, persistent, and patient enough to learn. A cnc router "any" cnc router will have issues; most issues are operator induced. (Myself included as I have messed up in the past doing something stupid.) Can't blame the machine for doing what it was told to do. Can't blame the machine for trying to get it to do more than it was designed for.

    Not every cnc router is the same. Some are better for some applications than others. For instance my old shop-bot PR is tough as nails, it will cut through just about anything but it will do it slower than my other routers. My old Shop Bot isn't as accurate as my other routers but it has its place and I work within the capabilities of the machine. Thom Carr's router won't cut as thick of material as the Shopbot but Thoms CNC router will cut at 3 times the speed. (Sharp router bits are a must) The Carr cnc router is more accurate than my old shop-bot PR. The CNC Mogul is the worst of the bunch, there is too much deflection on all axis's for any serious mill work. What I did with my cnc mogul is that I made a laser engraver out of it. It works ok for that application. I have been looking at Joe's Hybrid router which looks like a really nice design but I just made myself a 5th cnc router using ball screws. (My design) I designed my new router out of 2 inch square tubing welded together as I wanted a robust router that didn't suffer from deflection. It does a good job but it is quite a bit slower than expected. I should have made it using a rack and pinion drive system rather than ball screws. While it cuts slower than my other machines the accuracy is amazing even if I do say so myself. It is far to accurate for the work I am doing. Next time it will be another rack and pinion machine.

    I am happy with all my routers as they all work well when needed. A cnc router is not plug and play, there is a learning curve and if you make a mistake with a CNC router the results can be catastrophic for both the machine as well as the operator.

    PS,

    If I could change one thing on my Thom Carr routers it would be the Z Axis, I would rather have a ball screw Z axis as every once in a while when my bit gets dull the Z axis will lose position. A dull router bit will create havoc with Thoms' Router on all axises esp if the speed and feed is pushing the envelope. I am still using the 24vdc system that was original from Thom Carr. I have replaced the 24vdc supply once in the past year as it died. I saw the note above where someone went to a 48vdc supply. I might try that sometime but I would be concerned about the motors running hot.



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    Default Re: Thoms machine works well for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by mlind View Post
    Hello,

    I didn't call anyone a moron and that was not my intent. I have my machine working reliably and on my machine all the problems I had were setup issues. I'm not sure what your problems were as far as the machine was concerned.

    The funny thing is at work I am always called when engineers and techs have problems getting a machine to work. They always blame issues on the machine design or a miriad of other excuses for problems they cannot fix. Nope...... 90% of the time it is something simple. By using a logical step by step trouble shooting approach most problems are easily resolved. If the machine works for one person it will obviously work for another. If it worked at one time it can obviously work again...... Reminds of a quote "what one man can do another can do".

    What I also said was that if anyone needs help they can contact me and I might be able to help get their machine running. I'll even go so far as to say if you are in Houston I might even invite you over (if you ask nice and if I have time as I'm always buried with orders or at my real job working on equipment) to see Thoms machine in action and possibly help you trouble shoot your machine if you have problems. I support Thom Carr as he has supported me "WHENEVER" I needed help. He has gone above and beyond to help me when I needed it.

    OK I'll try and help those here who are having problems with Thoms machine.... Don't give up and don't let it get to you. Work the problem if you are frustrated take a break. The machine works for me and it will work well for you too....

    If you follow my troubleshooting procedures below I'll bet you can get your machine working as reliably as mine. Don't pay attention to those who say no or it won't work or those who say it is a bad design. Trust me it isn't because if it was why would my machine be working? and working Well..... No BS here. I'm not saying Thoms machine is perfect as I have never met the perfect machine... some are just tempermental.

    Here are some but not all of the things I learned about this machine and how to set it up to make it run well. Although Thom knows his machine a lot better than I do and you should call Thom when you have problems....He supports his product irregardless of what you might see here. Call the man and talk to him even if you are mad or disappointed he will help you work out your machine problems. Thom is pretty sharp when it comes to CNC..... A lot smarter than most here on cnczone including me. But you'll figure that out when you talk to him in person.

    Yes, I had setup problems that I had to work through but I'm glad I did. Its a good machine at a fantastic price. But you gotta work through the setup issues. Every problem listed below I had; and every problem below was a setup problem... Not cutting clean circles was a setup problem. Losing position was a setup problem. Mach 3 is a good controller but I prefer Kcam as it is more user friendly with faster setup times between jobs. So I can't comment on the Mach 3 problems as I changed to Kcam when I got the machine. Thom helped me over the phone set it up using MACH3. We set it up using Mach 3 but the next day I switched to Kcam. Once I had the parrallel port pin addresses and settings it was simple to convert from Mach 3 to Kcam.

    The rack and pinion design of this machine makes it a bit tempermental on intial setup but you are getting a BIGGER cnc router as well as a cnc lathe for a cheaper price than just a cnc router as offered elsewhere. Look at it like this if you have one and it isn't working now you have nothing to lose by working on it right!! It's amazing what a 1/16 of a turn on the set screws will do for the accuracy andreliability of this particular rack and pinion gear train as well as the machine over all.

    I do agree the screws should be counter sunk on the rails and I think a metal rack and pinion grear train would be better with perhaps different gear pitch but it works for me as is. I haven't had any problems with the screws hitting the carriage but counter sinking them would be a nice touch. I should have thought of that........ I suspect if the screws are tight your problem is related to bearing and or carriage adjustments. I also removed the screws from my machine when I reworked the rack and pinion system and I used Red Locktite when I replaced them just to prevent that from happening. I also added more screws to mine as a precaution, every 6 inches on both the X and Y axis now has a screw that is locktited in place. I also re-leveled the entire gear train as it was damaged by our favorite shipping company. I used small 1.25 inch sheet metal screws so they probably didn't need the locktite but hey I was there and I always use loctite from force of habit.

    SETUP TIPS....

    We will start with the basics. Make sure your motors work as they should. Left and right up and down forward and backwards using the manual controls. If that is all good then here we go.

    Make sure the set screws that hold the motor shaft couplers to the gear drives and gears are tight and in the right position which is the " flat spot " on the motor shaft as well as the motor drive bar. Those pesky little set screws can cause all kinds of problems if they aren't set right and tight but don't over-tighten them because if you strip one out then you have a big job in front of you. ( Nuther words dont be lazy and use a ball driver..... use a good old fashioned flat bottomed allen wrench as there is less chance of stripping the set screw or breaking the ball end off of the ball driver inside the set screw hen trying to get it out...... ) Thats another free tip......

    Also Make sure your drive gears are centered on the gear track. Very important.....

    Make sure the X gantry is square to the machine frame........ Very Important use the end of the machine vertical supports to gauge this..... OR a large framing square will work too.....

    ALL good to go with the above...Great lets get your machine running....

    First step : Level the table to the gantry. It should be the same height in all 4 corners of the machine as well as in the middle of your work table. Take your time as once it is done you won't have to mess with it unless you use another table for other work like I do. I have 2 tables one which is lower that I use to plane round log slabs that won't fit into the planer or bandsaw. They are interchangeable but it takes a little time to change them out...Depending on what I'm doing. Also make sure the bolts holding the X-axis gantry are TIGHT!!. They have lock nuts on each bolt but check them anyway. The X gantry shouldn't move up and down at all. If it does your bolts are not tight. Remember your machine was at the mercy of a shipping company..... Shipping companies are known for gently handling crates......LOL.

    Second Step ........Set the gantry bearings correctly, make sure "ALL" bearings are engaging on all 4 sides of the rails for the Y axis as well as the X axis. Most of your problems will ocurr on the Y AXIS. If the bearings aren't engaging accurecy will be compromised and you will see bobbles when cutting. There are hidden set screws to adjust the bearings...... although I removed them and used bolts where I could to make setting them a little faster and more user friendly. Plus, I can never find a allen wrench when I need one...hahahahaha SOme day I will clean the shop LOL.... Anyway back to it. All the bearings should be moving when the gantry or carriage is moving. There should be no binding when you move the gantry and carriage slow and steady. If there is it isn't adjusted correctly. Again take your time setting it up because once you set the bearing depths you won't have to mess with them again.......Ever........ unless a bearing goes bad on you.

    Third Step ..... If one over-torques or under-torque the set screws that adjust the up/down position of the drive gear you will have nothing but problems..... Don't over-tighten the set screws, be gentle with them and set it up in each of the 4 corners of the work table by turning off the motors and moving the gantry by hand. You shouldn't hear or feel any gears jumping or not meshing. If you do adjust the set screws until the gears mesh smoothly. (Don't over tighten the set screws) slightly loose is better than too tight!!!. There has to be a little bit of play for the gears to mesh smoothly but not so much that the gantiy is loose when you apply hand pressure to them with the motors turned on. That is the purpose of the springs to allow the gears to mesh firmly while allowing for just a little play in the gear train. If you have adjusted and left the springs compressed (too tight) you might have to pull them out and "stretch them back out a little bit ". Compressed springs are not good on this machine. Been there done that.

    ALSO make sure your controller is using ramping speed control on your machine. I start at 20ipm for setup.

    4th Step........... After setting the gantry 4 corners ( A Tad on the loose side ) Start with cutting a big Square (SLOW CUT!!!) about 8-10ipm shallow cut about 1/8 depth with a good new sharp 1/8 end mill or router bit with the router set to max speed cutting slow like 8-10 ipm. Don't use a big bit and don't cut deep or fast..... Remember you are setting up the machine to run reliably not starting your own sawmill as that will come later.

    When the gantries are semi-tight watch for bobbles in the toolpath. If there is a bobble in the square in one spot stop the cnc and turn off the motors and manually move the gantry to the position of the bobble and turn on the motors and manually try to move(wiggle) the gantry by hand, If it moves at all you have to adjust the corresponding gantry gear set screw('s) to eliminate the bobble. Keep working on it until you cut a perfect square with no Bobbles in it.

    Once it is cutting a perfect 3 foot Square with no bobbles you are done.

    5th step .........Now use the same procedure to cut a large circle and work through any bobbles you might encounter using the same procedure above....If it bobbles turn off the motors and move the gantry by hand to where it bobbles turn on the motors and (wiggle the gantry) if it moves at all adjust the corresponding drive gear set screws (With the motors on) until there isn't any bobbling in the axis that is causing the problem...... If no bobbles then the machine is dialed in and you won't need to adjust it for a long time. It will cut nice smooth circles.

    6th step............. Cut both another larger circle and a larger square as well as a couple smaller circles and squares making sure there are no bobbles in the toolpath. If there is a bobble in the toolpath work it out using the spring set screws. It seems like it is quite a bit to set up the machine but after doing it a couple times and getting the feel for the machine and this procedure you will get to the point where you just know how to adjust the machine if needed.

    The reason you start with a square is so you know which axis is causing the problem. Its pretty simple to figure out if it is the X or Y axis when cutting a square. When cutting a circle it can be a little tricky figuring out which axis is giving the problem....

    Another tip once you have been cutting for a while.......On the Z axis a touch of WD40 lightly applied "LIGHTLY" to the linear rails with your (FINGER TIP) every week or so to help prevent rust and will eliminate any bearing to rail chatter that is generated on the Z-axis when sawdust gets into the linear bearings. The grease used on the bearings has a tendency to attract and hold sawdust.... WD40 won't get rid of it but it will smooth the Z-Axis if it starts chattering as it will. Sawdust is a nuisance.

    Another TIP .........Also on the table I installed adjustable bolts to adjust the height of the table as it is easier (for me) to level the table height to match the gantry than it is to level the gantry to meet the table. If you level the gantry to the table you might have to do the alignment procedures I listed above. But I have done it both ways but for me it is easier to level the table to the gantry as I don't have to go through the "time consuming" bobble steps above..... I figure on a first attempt at debugging this machine it will take about 6 hours to make it work depending but once dialed in it you will make more sawdust than you can possibly imagine.

    I'll also go as far as saying that I'll stack my machine up against any machine in the same price range and I'll betcha Thoms machine will run as good if not better. But you gotta find a commercailly available 48x48 machine for less than 3.5K unless the price has gone up on Thoms machines...plus can you find a machine in this price range that includes a cnc lathe? (Smile) Yeah I know the 4th "axis" is slow in coming but It will get there. Call Thom and tell him you need it and I'll bet he gets it to you.

    As for support from Thom call him and ask questions. Yes I mean just that, call him and he will get back to you HIS WORD IS GOOD..... When I call he always calls or emails me back. So give him a holler. To bad he isn't a member here on CNCzone but he is a fixer and designer rather than a chatter.

    Good luck hope this helps someone out there.
    I have to agree, Thomm is not your regular chinese factory. He is a real person that does and will work with you until every detail is worked out. Yeah he is a nice guy but he also has knowledge beyond the typical customer service. I had several problems myself and it was my first machine. With patience and tenacity everything came out fine in the end. I had the first computer damaged as well as some damage to the machine when shipped but nothing that could not be fixed or repaired. If you are on a strict timeline may-be you should buy from another and move up to Thomm when you develop a sense of CNC. I also saw that no one was being called a moran. Thanks for leting me join in!



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