Sidewinder CNC

[sconklin]

I am just curious, What size screws fuelfromh20 has on his 48 x 36 machine. The machine that I need to rebuild is a 24 x 36. It has 1/2" screws and 1" un supported rails. I am glad his machines work well and maybe being a novice I am in correct in thinking that a 36" travel w/1/2" screws and un supported 1" rails is the reason for the lack of rigidity and slop on my machine?
I will find some pics. Maybe I can do a video to show what I am talking about.

[cabnet636]

Here are 2 photos of a milled and un-milled piece of HDPE pre-stressed 1"x5.625" plastic.
Software: D2NC setup at 23500rpm 1.080 depth, pass depth .120, feed 51 ipm, plunge 10.1. on center cut out.
Drilled holes full depth 1.080 same speed & feed.
Total time per piece using Mach3, 5:35 minutes.

Like I said before, absolutely no problems with my Sidewinder Cnc machines at all. I sure would like to find some decent up-cut .250 router bits that would last a little longer. The stuff they sell at Home depot doesn't hack it at all.

how about some of the machines in shops

jim

[ger21]

I am just curious, What size screws fuelfromh20 has on his 48 x 36 machine. The machine that I need to rebuild is a 24 x 36. It has 1/2" screws and 1" un supported rails. I am glad his machines work well and maybe being a novice I am in correct in thinking that a 36" travel w/1/2" screws and un supported 1" rails is the reason for the lack of rigidity and slop on my machine?
I will find some pics. Maybe I can do a video to show what I am talking about.

The 1/2" screws should not cause any problems, as long as they are mounted correctly with no slop in them. Unsupported rails, however, could cause some flex. There could also be other issues causing flex as well.

[Albie1]

I have one of the sidewinders and it's a paperweight?? I have emaild Dave 10 times to no reply.. I have ruined over 400 in carbon fiber.. He even sent me a program to try and it cuts way off.. I can hold the z axis carrige and rock it back and forth a good half inch so even cutting with the lowest feed rate the bit wanders.. No help from Dave I think this machine is junk I have had it since 2008 and not cut 1 useable part yet.. And did I mention Dave is a no reply ... I don't know what else to do guess I might save for a k2 unit but hate to see 3800 wasted on this thing... Any ides to stop the z axes swaying and the guid beams bending???? Albie

and Dave if u read this send me a message cause I'm not happy

[djgatton]

Albie,
I don't usually get on the CNCzone forum much but when I saw your comments and personal attacks I felt I need to respond. First of all, let's set the record straight. You purchased your machine on February 12, 2008. I have received many emails from you with questions on how to set up the machine and troubleshooting your problems some of which have nothing to do the the machine, for example computer related, and have replied to all of them. I know this because I've just spent the past thirty minutes looking through my “Sent Box” on my email. I have every email you've ever sent to me and every reply I've sent. In case your wondering I counted 23 emails between May 8th, 2008 and July 23rd, 2009. The email of January 9th,2009 that you sent had an interesting line and I'm quoting you here “Thanks for a great machine I'm gonna send pics of my sidewinder and the rc chassies I have made with it.. Albie”. So Albie if you are unhappy with your machine after 2 ½ years and 23 emails there's probably not much I can do short of coming there and setting the machine up properly and running it for you. If you want to tell this forum that you don't like the machine for whatever reason that's fine but calling me a “no reply” just doesn't cut it. There are nearly 100 of these 40 x 26 machines all across this great country of ours and a few in Canada and the complaints have been few and far between.

Dave Gatton
Sidewinder CNC

[Albie1]

dave i admit in the begining you did email me back and yes at first i had a computer problem but after your help with that the machine worked good... but the parts were 20thou off .. working good running up and down side to side is good but making a part that is within specs is totally different,, yes the first time i made the parts i was happy it made a part i never checked them with a caliper cause they "looked good" i sent the parts to the guy who wrote the program and his first words to me are i think your machine is way off...... and im like WHAT...... he said yes the parts are all off some as much as 20 thousands.... i wrote you about it and you sent me a test program which i cut and it was supposed to be a square it was way off i told you the whole z axis moves or flexes as the cutter is moving...and the cutter has to catch up to the axis... your reply was slow it down but i was cutting at the lowest i can go....... i wrote you back to see what else to try and never heard a reply.. im not an engineer to look at the machine and say ill add metal here and there to make the unit stop flexing... the machine has been sitting since i lost a 400.00 piece of carbon fiber that it cut off so bad...

dave my last email to you i sent i told you i can hold the router by the spindle and move it back and forth the whole z axis rocks on the 2 cross beams ... i can see them flex....the 1 inch beams flex.... how can i stop that??? i thought about gun drilling them to make them stronger and hopefully stop bending/ flexing.... i have the same problem likk the guy below who added guides to the z axis .. i even wrote an email asking if we could make a new guide cause the 1 inch rails have so much slop that the bit wanders as the machine moves.... tomorrow i will take a video and post it to show you what i mean....

if we could get the machine work the way it was inteded to i will be the first to say im sorry it was me who messed up and not the machine but the last email i sent last year i never got a reply so i almost gave up... the machine is not cutting right.. i cant get 1 part to cut in spec since day one even when the machine is set up to make a hole it makes them oval... i dont know what else to do...... albie

[cabnet636]

albie, i see you have just come to cnc zone and glad you are here i love it, over the last three years it (cnc zone) has helped me come a long way in my use of my cnc. i have watched the sidewinder for a while now and with what i know about machines vibration and inertia (i have heavy woodworking machines in my shop) i am not sure i would expect a machine like the sidewinder to produce critical parts of carbon fiber at 20thou, i am currently cutting aluminum parts and have had to really learn some lessons on this stuff. i believe one would have to beef up that gantry and run a bit slower to achieve this i am sure it could be done however to use a machine with a bolt together frame for this precision right out of the box might be asking a bit much of the machine, i checked the site and cant find a commitment for the precision but for carving and many general cnc uses i am sure it could do the job.

i copy'ed this from the site and believe the use as described has been met by the manufacturer. or at least by the getting close to 20thou for this machine it is pretty much what i would expect, there are heavier table tops capable of this but you will pay more

"My goal is to build a good quality CNC machine that is affordable for the "average Joe". Whether you are an individual wanting to tinker around in your garage or workshop making craft items and knick knacks or a small company wanting to run prototypes and light production I have a machine that will fit your budget. My machines offer a sturdy steel frame in a lightweight benchtop design."




"This machine can be used to route, machine, or engrave wood, plastics, and soft metals. This machine is ideal for the hobbyist, a small business, or a school Manufacturing Technology class. Such uses are sign making, decorative plaques, picture frames, Guitar making, 3D engraving, 3D photo carvings and just about anything you can dream up. All the user needs to add is a computer with a parallel cable and some controller software such as TurboCNC or Mach 3. This machine comes with a cd that has set-up screen shots showing the configuration settings for using Mach 3 software and some sample programs so you can be up and running in minutes. Mach 3 software can be downloaded from www.artofcnc.ca/ "


as far as circles coming out oval i would look at the config settings for the controller if this is consistant it is the controller if the ovals are wobbly and different in several test then the machine may have to be tightened a bit, we have to do this on larger machines

jim

[mactec54]

Hi cabnet636

What you got from Sidewinder site is not what this machine is & it can not even approach
anything like what is written in your above post

I have rebuild 3 of these machines & without major work They are not worth the money that is being paid for them

The machines I have done work on all have the same problems, which is very poorly designed

I have said before in other posts that these machines are not built very well, Some of the first machines had 3/8 acme screws that wobbled so bad they could not be used,
They then went to 1/2 acme screws this was a little better

But the screws have no thrust bearings or good bearing supports to stop them moving back & forward, they rely on the stepper motor to hold the screws in place

The round linear rails bounce as the machine moves around, the bushing that slide on the rails are only held in the sheetmetal by the thickness of the steel, about .100, so everything is very loose & can move were ever it wants to

The table is quite niece & is as good as any others out there but from the table up it's not much good for anything, without a major rebuild

It may work quite well as a plasma cutter as there is not much loading on the gantry & Z axes for plasma cutting

[cabnet636]

i would be foolish not to agree with one who has actually seen and worked on the machine so i defer to your experience, it would look like to me that the machine needs beefing up for sure.

jim

[djgatton]

Hi cabnet636

What you got from Sidewinder site is not what this machine is & it can not even approach
anything like what is written in your above post

I have rebuild 3 of these machines & without major work They are not worth the money that is being paid for them

The machines I have done work on all have the same problems, which is very poorly designed

I have said before in other posts that these machines are not built very well, Some of the first machines had 3/8 acme screws that wobbled so bad they could not be used,
They then went to 1/2 acme screws this was a little better

But the screws have no thrust bearings or good bearing supports to stop them moving back & forward, they rely on the stepper motor to hold the screws in place

The round linear rails bounce as the machine moves around, the bushing that slide on the rails are only held in the sheetmetal by the thickness of the steel, about .100, so everything is very loose & can move were ever it wants to

The table is quite niece & is as good as any others out there but from the table up it's not much good for anything, without a major rebuild

It may work quite well as a plasma cutter as there is not much loading on the gantry & Z axes for plasma cutting

Mactec54,

Once again, just to set the record straight the Sidewinder CNC that Albie purchased is the 40 x 26 Router/Plasma combo that is EXACTLY like what is listed on the website and is EXACTLY like the one in my shop that I run daily without any problems. I would be interested to know what three Sidewinder machines you have rebuilt. I think the biggest problem with the Sidewinder and probably most other small lightweight machines is that some people think they can spend $3000 on a small benchtop machine and expect the same performance as a 100k CNC milling center. It's just not gonna happen. I make sure that I tell everyone that is interested in my machines that if the machine is setup properly and you operate the machine within it's limitations you should have no problem holding a tolerance of 0.010"-0.020". That tolerance is well within most peoples expectations but if you are planning on making parts the the NASA Space Shuttle then you're going to have to spend a lot more money on a machine.

Dave Gatton
Sidewinder CNC

[Albie1]

It's funny I'll take 8-10 thou off... And I think it should be posted to expect a 20 thou off cut... Dave u didn't reply to my post above just like normal ... Is my machine a dud ?? Even the program you sent me to cutout a small square was off and u even said something is wrong ... Never a fix it reply ... I asked in the above post were do we go from here to get the machine to cut say 10 thou off... But still nothing ! do I need to pay someone like Cabnet to redo the machine hell I'm to the point I'll send it back to you to get it to run right??? What you think dave I'm out of suggestions.. Can you modify the 1 inch beams to dovetail blocks or something.... Ooh and I see the k2 machine can run alum to 4-6 thou tol.... And the price is only slightly more then the sidewinder.. Albie

[mactec54]

djgatton
Your machine with a cutting tolerance of .010 to .020 is not much good for many things, try putting something together that is .020 out & it's not going to happen even .010 is way to much

The link to the machine below run around half the price of your machine,with out the control, these are very well built machines with C5 ballscrews supported rails Etc & I'm sure they don't have a cut tolerance problem as your machines have

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92565

[djgatton]

djgatton
Your machine with a cutting tolerance of .010 to .020 is not much good for many things, try putting something together that is .020 out & it's not going to happen even .010 is way to much

The link to the machine below run around half the price of your machine,with out the control, these are very well built machines with C5 ballscrews supported rails Etc & I'm sure they don't have a cut tolerance problem as your machines have

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92565

Mactec54,

I will certainly agree that a tolerance of .010" to .020" is not good enough if you are building space shuttle parts but for the woodworker and hobbyist .010" is way more that accurate enough. Try measuring a piece of wood on a cold dry day with calipers and then measure the same piece of wood on a hot humid day. The difference will be way more than .020". I'm in complete agreement that my machines are not for everyone. If they must have a tolerance of plus or minus 0.005" they will certainly have to spend a lot more than what my machines cost. My goal was and always has been to build a good quality machine that is reasonably priced so that the "average Joe" can afford one. My machines come complete with all electronics, a licensed version of Mach 3 controller software and instructions with all of the correct configuration settings so there's no guess work in setting it up. Each machine is built completely in my shop and tested for several hours before disassembling for shipping.

I read with great interest some of the threads from the link you included in your post. The comments didn't seem that favorable to me. I didn't see any pricing only on what was just a frame not a complete ready to run unit. It looks like some nice machine work but it looks like the price would add up quickly when adding everything else you need to run.

Dave Gatton
Sidewinder CNC

[Albie1]

who is building space shuttle parts??? at 20 thou all lettering wouldnt look right and and s simple square could have rounded corners.... in all your replys dave not one to me.... its looking like i bought junk... you claim the machines can cut soft metal like alum copper and brass... but on here you say diff... really dave how can we get my machine working right do i need to send it back to you? deffinitly the x axis needs hugh support to stop flexing... can or even will you fix the machine??? albie....

[Albie1]

funny like the emails i sent no responce......even on the boards

[Albie1]

Guys I been in contact with Dave he is gonna work on an upgrade to fix some of the things on the older sidewinder I'll keep u updated... Albie

[dssprat]

Albie, I would be interested in some improvements. I have a 49x26 machine that does what Dave said it would. I constantly fight with binding and flex on the unsupported rails. All in all, the machine is not bad for the price I paid. At the time, there were no other machines at this price point. Please keep us informed, I would like to continue my support of Dave's machine instead of looking elsewhere as others have done so.

[Albie1]

Ha ha I just had to reread this site... Dave never responded and it looks like he is out of business.. The paperweight just sits there.... Not worth a thing...

[cabnet636]

Home Page

[djgatton]

Yes??