Irony

[owhite]

You know what I think is a hoot?

I'm building a laser system for cutting sheet metal. I have a running list of items that if I _had_ the ability to cut sheet metal I could complete the laser. An example that came up for me this morning is I'm building the controller which has about 20 connectors running into the controller box. The easiest way to mount those connectors would be to cut a sheet metal plate. I have a list of about 6 items that'd really help to get done.

I'm reminded when I was in my grandfather's metal shop and he explained that to make a milling machine, you'd need to have a milling machine. I was 10 or so but that was moment that sure baked my noodle.

Owen

[Rekd]

Actually, a milling machine is the only single machine that can re-produce itself. (If you can't make a part on the mill itself, you can make the machine that will make the part.

'Rekd

[Hobbiest]

Rekd...the lathe is usually regarded as the "machine that can reproduce itself an every other machine in the machine shop". I think you would be pretty hard pressed to make a spindle on a mill. Ways would be hard to make on a lathe, but it is very possible to hand scrape accurately enough.

[gjahnke]

Yep, yu can start with a lathe and build about any machine you want or need. If you don;t have a lathe, you can start with a gingery book and build a lathe by hand and without any other machines. Sorry for the gingery plug, a buddy of built one and it is a really good lathe, especially considering his investment was only about $12 plus the cost of the book. After that, I built one (couldn't resist) and it is every bit as accurate as my southbend.

[SRT]

Very antiquated, but possible to make a spindle on a mill:
Use a right angle attachment on the spindle or loosen the 4 bolts on the front of the mill head and rotate the mill spindle horizontal. Raise lathe tooling up to spindle centerline. If you have a short table, you will also have to extend tooling in X axis away from the mill spindle, etc. etc. It would be better to get a 2nd job, and just buy a lathe, or ask Mom & Dad for a loan.
Grandfather (& Rekd) were right.
Mills Rule

[SRT]

.

[Rekd]

For clarity, let me state that my statement reguarding the state of machine replication is in reference to the era PRIOR to CNC mills and live tooling lathes. (We're all sure this can be done fairly easily these days, right? )

With that in mind, lets continue.

Originally posted by Hobbiest Rekd...the lathe is usually regarded as the "machine that can reproduce itself an every other machine in the machine shop". I think you would be pretty hard pressed to make a spindle on a mill. Ways would be hard to make on a lathe, but it is very possible to hand scrape accurately enough.

Make a spindle on a mill? Hell yes. It's a lot easier than making gears, ways, keyways, face plates with bolt hole patterns etc. etc. etc. (or any other flat/square parts) on a lathe. Hope you got a real sharp file and a strong arm.

With a mill, you've got a lathe built in. But with a lathe, you don't have a mill, (unless you can hold your part on the tool post, lol) A mill has 3 axis, one of which can be rotated and swivel.

How many axes on a lathe? 2? Can one of them rotate around to the other side of the machine? Not without major repair costs! Can it swivel around 90° in either direction? Sure, if you've got a dolly to spin the whole machine with. How about swivel AND rotate at the same time? No? Hrmph.

I'm not an expert of course, but my (German) family has been doing this stuff for generations. I learned about this stuff at a very early age. I learned that you can, as SRT pointed out, rotate the spindle horizontally to use it as a lathe spindle, (if doing it vertically won't work). You could even make a tail stock that bolts to the shop wall if you needed to.

How many square (read MILL) parts have you made on a lathe? I've made many many round parts on a mill by holding the material in the spindle and a lathe bit in the vise or bolted to the table. Very easy and fairly accurate. (Much more so than hand scraping/filing. )

'Rekd

[SRT]

Before I ever heard of gang tooling on a lathe, and before I had a CNC lathe, I had made a 2" X 2" X 18" bar with 3/4 " holes spaced about 1" apart. I held the bar in a vise on a Boss 5 BP. and gave my lathe competition down the road, a run for their money. My tools were poined at 12:00 and their tools were pointed at 9:00. If you want to have a look into where some of these things that we do today came from, take a look at www.roseantiquetools.com/id44.html there is among many other interesting things, a write up on the beginning Brown & Sharpe days and beginning Starrett days. Have fun and enjoy your work, remember "Safety Is No Accident"

[Ferenczyg]

Argh, the green letters over black background have remembered me the old days of green phosphor monitors and burnt corneas