What is the Ideal, General Purpose Car???

[HayTay]

While driving home from work I got to thinking about what car(s) would have the lowest TCO (Total Cost of Ownership).

This should take into account the initial cost, insurance, MPG, maintenance, part availability and price, any specialty tools required facilitate repairs, and anything else I haven't thought of. I'm gearing this towards a dependable car for the average DIY kind of person with the drive it till it dies attitude and an average family. It can be a more current model or a late model car, domestic or foreign, from less than Yugos to Ferraris and beyond. Something that is not in a perpetual state of repair (I had a friend that had one of those kind, his front drivers side wheel passed him one day on a winding road. This was a split second before his front end routed a pretty impressive groove in the asphalt. And NO, his lug nuts and bolts did not come off, they were still attached to the wheel.)

From what I've seen, and have been led to believe, late model VW Bugs and Jeeps may be in this category. Is this true? Are there other models that would be a better choice?

It would be so much better, IMO, to be able to go to the auto parts store and pick up a set of wiper blades, an oil filter, a headlamp, etc. for a vehicle without having to look up the parts and consult with the guy at the parts desk. Let's see, is that an '01 or '02 model, 6 cylinder regular or fuel saving carb, grey paint job with black seats or black paint with grey seats, ... We're sorry, we don't stock those, they're special order only. You get the picture.


What's your pick and why?,

HayTay

[NC Cams]

A major automaker did a study of trucks - as in pickups. When it was all said and done, they ALL fell apart chassis wise, in their 250K mile accelerated durability trial.

One, however stood above ALL the rest in the engine department - the GM pushrod small block was still running strong when all the other OHC, 4 valve, three valve high tech or low tech push rodded stuff was wheezing in exhaustion or emitting noxious smoke while dead by side of the road.

Regarding cars, the biggest card seller is of late Toyota. For value, probably their Corolla. Bread and butter, no glitz grocery getters.

For snap and performance, Honda. Current rice burner FWD crowd favorite.

Yet, in some private testing I did while working at an OEM, the Nissan 2.5 liter Sentra "hot rod" SR FWD package outran EVERYTHING up to any legal speed you'd find. Their VQ V-6 is a fine piece for performance and driveabilty.

The "drifting crowd" should be consulted for the hot tip rice burner stuff although GTO's and Vipers and Mustangs seem to be doing well.

Me? I like RWD stuff that has pushrod V-8's. When you can win at LeMans with the technology against the best the world has to offer (asside from the Audi A10 Diesel - truly awesome piece), what more needs to be said.

[RTP_Burnsville]

In my view it's not Jeep or VW for cars but rather Honda or Toyota.

FWIW, A couple years back when car shopping I asked everyone I talked to for about 6 months what car they had and what issues they encountered. Toyota and Honda were the only two, that time after time, received positive reviews with minimal issues. After years of always fixing American made junk I ended up with a Honda and have never looked back. I wish the big three auto makers would have learned their lesson in the late 70's but they did not. Recently I have started the same procedure and guess what, Honda and Toyota are still leading in my informal survey to date.

[tobyaxis]

Chevy S10 Crew Cab LS 4WD, Why do you ask? 4.3L Vorteck 275hp 315ft. lbs. of Torque with Tow Package, Electric and Hydrolic Brake Units for a Trailer, including separate fuse box for trailer, 4WD High and Low is 56:1 (push button for the little woman), 3.73 Front and Rear Gears. Heated Mirrors and seats, Separate Oil and Tranny Coolers. 4000lb Curb Weight and 5200lb Towing Weight = GVW 9200lbs. Only 500 made with these ponys. Fuel economy stinks, but it moves. The Little Woman saw it and Named it "Snowflake", and we were signing papers that day.

All Parts Can Be Found In Any AutoParts Suppliers Stock Room!!!!!!!!!

[DSL PWR]

If you put on lots of miles a diesel is the only way to go. I put on over 80 000 km (50 000 mi) a year, mostly for work, and on horrible roads. How bad you ask? I've seen a pickup on the side of the road after the driver hit a bad hole, drove over his front suspension, and ground to a halt. Any way, if you want a truck I would look at a '94 to '98.5 dodge diesel. Even though I'm a dodge guy I will also recomend up to a '98 chev truck. I was working at a place that ran chevs for the work fleet, and when chev "updated" the trucks the new 2000's were in the shop more than the old "miled out" 98's. Most parts for these 2 trucks are availible at NAPA, or most part stores. If you decide on a new car go for a VW TDI. It will kill honda, toyota, and kia on milage, but you will need to run it til it dies to get payback on it. Or take the initial premium on the chin, and trade every few years. I've noticed that a diesel engine doesn't depriciate with the rest of the car/truck. '93 dodge cummins are still selling for 6-8000, if that truck had a 318 gasser in it it would sell for 1000.

DSL PWR

[Geof]

You put in a pair of incompatible requirements; there isn't one. It has to be a truck or a van or both. For the van a twenty year old Kia Besta which can take full 4' by 8' sheets flat on the floor or 12' long lumber and still close the back door; soon to be replaced by a Dodge Sprinter. For the truck my son-in-law's Dodge which can tow a trailer with 3 tons of wood pellets for heating my home shop in the winter. Average gas mileage between the two, not bad, but I close my eyes when filling up the Dodge.

[dertsap]

FORD

HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!

oh ya just bought anther one ,
when and not if the motor or tranny goes in this one ,i'm cutting a hole in the floor and go flintstone style

[HayTay]

Originally Posted by tobyaxis Why do you ask?

I'm not sure I am fully conscious of all the reasons. I guess one of the advantages or disadvantages (I'm not sure which) of getting older is that you start to perceive "things" differently. You notice "stuff" that you didn't notice, or care about, when you were younger.

Did you ever purchase a pair of athletic shoes and those "sneakers" (what they used to be called) were the most comfortable ones you ever owned. So comfortable, in fact, that after a short while you decided to purchase a second pair. So back to the shoe store you go only ro find out that they have no more, and will not be getting any more because they were replaced with a "newer model". Semi-bummed you let the salesperson talk you into trying on the newer sneakers which turns out to be one of the worst shoe experiences in your recent history. Now truly-bummed you start to wander around the store in search of another "comfy" sneaker. Most of the time I don't find one and wind up leaving the store. A sale is lost to the shoe store and the maker of the atletic shoe. I've worn several dress shoes and atletic shoes that I would still be wearing today IF I could purchase a replacement pair for the one's I've worn out or ruined.

It's sorta the same thing with motor vehicles, why do the large car companies have so many models that they feel compelled to change/update year-after-year for no apparent reason? I know it is driven by perception and sales and who knows what else. I know some of it has to do with government regulations and such, I can deal with that. When you keep changing things and can't even get simple things right you think that they may want to rethink their strategies. Most recently the FORD recall of 1.2 million trucks, vans and SUV's due to a potential cruise control failure that may cause the vehicle to catch on fire while your driving it. That's not the worst of it, FORD recalled 4.6 million vehicles last year for the same problem. And this is only two examples.

I used to drive a FORD Bronco II until it cost more to fix it than it was worth. I then sold it for $500. I would have purchased another new one and used the first one for parts, but, they were no longer being made and most of the parts weren't interchangable. FORD lost a sale, NISSAN gained one.

In light of increasing population and everyone griping about limited natural resources the way to go, in my opinion, is to engineer "stuff" that works, fix anything that doesn't in the first couple of production years, then produce the crap out of it for many years to come only updating as necessary to keep the government regulations people happy. This approach will emphasize long term revenue streams, help minimize tooling and production costs, reduce consumption of natural resources, etc., etc., etc.

Originally Posted by RTP_Burnsville In my view it's not Jeep or VW for cars but rather Honda or Toyota.

The reason I picked the late model VW Beetle, VW MicroBus and Jeep offerings is my understanding that parts were mostly interchangeable between model years. While parts still broke or rusted it was easy and cheaper to find a replacement part. Also from my understanding a lot of the body parts were not welded but bolted on making repairs easier and faster. In addition, the abundance and availability of after-market and third-party parts also makes it easier and more cost effective for the DIYer to keep the vehicles operational.


That's my ramble for now,

HayTay

[NC Cams]

HatTay: The sneaker part is (should be) easy - get New Balance, the ones that are/were made in USA as opposed to thrid world sweat shops. Please don't tell me that they don't make them anymore.

They are pricey but each and every pair feels the same - GREAT. Learned the lesson about tennis/walking/whatever shoes long ago.

Simply buy the best, you won't be disappointed.

[tobyaxis]

HayTay,
I hear what your saying, but things change like underwear these days. I had a Pontiac GTA 1990. By the time I was done tweeking and buying High Performace parts GM stopped making them(2001 I believe, someone correct me if I am wrong). This car had 575hp (not legal in NY) when it was done. My Heart was Broken. I decided it was time to slow down and buy a truck. They go more places cars can't 4WD or not. It has real towing capability and I can bring bigger stuff home from the stores. There isn't a day gone by that I don't miss that car. Then I think it was just a car, not a wonderful woman, just a damn car. I still miss it, and probibly always will. But when there is 2+ feet of snow on the roads and the plows aren't out at 2am, I am out exploring. I hear you on the Ford Bronco. My Step Father has a 1992, the last year, I miss that too. Life is too short to be wasting time missing a car or truck. Find something that will serve your wants and needs. Above all, have fun with it, it's just a car/truck. We have 75,000 miles on ours and it luuks like it's time for a new one. Full size 3500 Crew Cab 4WD with Duellys and lots of POWER. It's still just a means of getting from point "A" to point "B" safely Find something and test drive it. Trade it in before the warrantee is up. Ours is up in 25,000 miles. Two things to be sure of in life , Death, and Taxes. Live Now!!!!!!!!!

[Geof]

Originally Posted by HayTay ......In light of increasing population and everyone griping about limited natural resources the way to go, in my opinion, is to engineer "stuff" that works, fix anything that doesn't in the first couple of production years, then produce the crap out of it for many years to come only updating as necessary to keep the government regulations people happy. This approach will emphasize long term revenue streams, help minimize tooling and production costs, reduce consumption of natural resources, etc., etc., etc.....HayTay

You are talking Utopia and unfortunately they never work. In a free society any competitor is free to come up with glitzy changes that have no real substance and con the suckers into buying their 'new improved' model.

[tobyaxis]

Originally Posted by dertsap FORD HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA!HAHA! oh ya just bought anther one , when and not if the motor or tranny goes in this one ,i'm cutting a hole in the floor and go flintstone style

Yea Baby, that's the way to go Yaba-Baba-Doooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!