Water as fuel...

[WilliamD]

You have to see this! Pretty incredible.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HF__Qlhtn...=water%20power

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/05/340246.shtml

This is hopefully the future.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by WilliamD You have to see this! Pretty incredible. http://youtube.com/watch?v=HF__Qlhtn...=water%20power http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/05/340246.shtml This is hopefully the future.

If you believe in this as being a source of energy I can refer you to a bridge in Brooklyn that might be for sale and a large acreage of desert property in Florida.

[WilliamD]

There's a pretty crazy battle going on at digg.com. Seems pretty divided. The inventor's claims are a tad different than previous "snake oil salesmen." We'll see what happens though. The digg battle is flat out hilarious at some points.

Is that desert property in the hurricane zone? If no, me and a couple of friends might be interested. PM me with details.

[diarmaid]

The welder application is facinating, can anyone enlighten me on the physical/chemical properties of the flame that allow it to burn 'cold' until contact with certain substances?

Using hydrogen as a fuel has been around for decades but hasn't become widespread yet for various reasons, including highly misconceived notions of safety concerns (Its much safer than gasoline). The video mentioned that he has patented his idea, maybe he figured out a better way to break down the molecules of water into component parts, or a better way to use them.

I can't wait to see how long it takes before the big oil companies buy his patent - Result: He gets rich, and the technology never gets released. It won't be the first time.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by diarmaid The welder application is facinating, can anyone enlighten me on the physical/chemical properties of the flame that allow it to burn 'cold' until contact with certain substances?...

When you are unconcerned with being technically or scientifically correct you can make any sort of claim. I think a stoichiometric Hydrogen-Oxygen flame is the hottest you can get. This is the reason it is used on the Shuttle main rocket motor; higher combustion temperature means higher exhaust gas velocity means higher specific impulse. In short accelerate at higher rate to higher velocity.

The claim that it is patented is meaningless. It is possible to patent inventions that are technically impossible and I think now it is even possible to patent what is essentially a perpetual motion machine provided the claims in the patent do not explicitly claim this. I remember reading a court case relating to the refusal of the US PTO to issue a patent on these grounds.

[bigz1]

Iceland is hoped to become the first hydrgen economy buy 2050. Already they have a small fleet of buses using hydrogen and are looking to convert their fishing fleet.

[MrWild]

BAH

Snake oil. The torch tip the guy held was cool for a reason. Look at it closely. The gas isn't igniting until it is at least 1/4" away from th e tip due to gas velocity out of the tip. You can do the same thing with a big tip, but the larger flame will burn you quicker.

Just another perpetual motion machine. Nothing is said about the power his device consumes to split the water into gas. It don't happen by magic.

[sdantonio]

Originally Posted by diarmaid The welder application is facinating, can anyone enlighten me on the physical/chemical properties of the flame that allow it to burn 'cold' until contact with certain substances? Using hydrogen as a fuel has been around for decades but hasn't become widespread yet for various reasons, including highly misconceived notions of safety concerns (Its much safer than gasoline). The video mentioned that he has patented his idea, maybe he figured out a better way to break down the molecules of water into component parts, or a better way to use them. I can't wait to see how long it takes before the big oil companies buy his patent - Result: He gets rich, and the technology never gets released. It won't be the first time.

Regarding burning cold until it contacts certain substances... after 30 years of doing physics in the lab, I have no clue as to a mechanism. I would think if he is forming water as a combustion product then that should actually take heat away from the process as the water is revaporized to steam

Hydrogen as a fuel has been around for years true. Safest when adsorbed to a metal surface (similar to a metal catalyst). But very flamable when left in the gas state. The flamability and the fact that electrolysis costs more in electricity than it gives back in energy is the reason it hasn't caught on yet. Also, no one wants to invest in making hydrogen stations until there are cars available and the car manufacturers don't want to make the cars until there are places to refuel them.

I can't wait to see how long it takes before the big oil companies buy his patent... ain't it the truth

Be cautious before you invest in this guy's technology. Remember the promise of cold fussion and Smirnova's room temp atactic polypropylene superconductor.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by bigz1 Iceland is hoped to become the first hydrgen economy buy 2050. Already they have a small fleet of buses using hydrogen and are looking to convert their fishing fleet.

Yes, and a few years ago someone had the bright idea to generate electricity in Iceland and export it through an undersea cable going past the Faroes and on to Scotland. I will believe it when I see it.

[bigz1]

Originally Posted by sdantonio Regarding burning cold until it contacts certain substances... after 30 years of doing physics in the lab, I have no clue as to a mechanism. I would think if he is forming water as a combustion product then that should actually take heat away from the process as the water is revaporized to steam Hydrogen as a fuel has been around for years true. Safest when adsorbed to a metal surface (similar to a metal catalyst). But very flamable when left in the gas state. The flamability and the fact that electrolysis costs more in electricity than it gives back in energy is the reason it hasn't caught on yet. Also, no one wants to invest in making hydrogen stations until there are cars available and the car manufacturers don't want to make the cars until there are places to refuel them. I can't wait to see how long it takes before the big oil companies buy his patent... ain't it the truth Be cautious before you invest in this guy's technology. Remember the promise of cold fussion and Smirnova's room temp atactic polypropylene superconductor.

You can fill up that hydrogen car here.

http://www.geothermie.de/egec-geothe...irst_shell.htm

[miljnor]

A mixed hydrogen-oxygen fuel generator system uses an electrolytic solution to generate gaseous hydrogen-oxygen fuel through the electrolysis of water. This generator system includes: at least one electrolytic cell with multiple metallic plates used as an internal isolation system in which two of the plates separately connect to both the positive and negative terminal of a DC circuit. These plates are used for the electrolysis of the electrolytic solution in the cell(s) to produce, under pressure, mixed hydrogen-oxygen fuel. The apparatus also includes a cooling system containing a water cooling tank in which there are two zones: one is the electrolytic solution circulation coil and the another is a water circulation zone. The cooler provides the circulating, cooling water used to adjust the temperature of the operating cell and of the electrolyte solution to within a given temperature range in order to ensure that the cell is not affected by excessively elevated temperatures that can stop operations due to cell overheating. Another effect of this cooling system is to precipitate moisture out of the generated gas products. The ignition flame temperature of the gaseous fuel produced can be adjusted for specific applications by passage of the hydrogen/oxygen gas stream through a temperature-control fluid. Thus, continuous 24 hours operation can be achieved along with better gas production efficiency and fuel cell energy generation.

this is the patent

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=2&f=G&l=50&d=PTXT&p=1&p=1&S1=((hydrogen+AND+torch)+AND+klein)&OS=hydrogen+and+torch+and+klein&RS=((hydrogen+AND+torch)+AND+klein)

It seams like he is using an electrolytic solution of some sort to boost the production of Hydrogen and oxygen somehow. So maybe he has the energy consumption down do to some feature I am not aware of (i am not a phsysist).

[diarmaid]

Originally Posted by sdantonio But very flamable when left in the gas state. The flamability and the fact that electrolysis costs more in electricity than it gives back in energy is the reason it hasn't caught on yet.

I agree with all you said. But just to point out that hydrogen has a higher flash point temperature than gasoline, and if it leaks it dissipates harmelessly into the atmosphere, unlike gasoline, which dissipates into highly flammable, heavier than air fumes before breaking up into the atmosphere....Its much safer overall.