Q: SIPS construction for new home.

[Deviant]

While this isn't exactly cnc related. I was hoping that there would a member out that that has built or builds using this method.

Or ideally a cnczone member that is in this business. As from what I have researched the sip walls are cut via cnc routers.

Any comments on the downside, costs and other items that I should be aware of would be great.

Also, any info on precast basement, or ICF basements.

The wife is lusting for a new house and I'd like to build one that has a low upkeep/cost to run.

Can anyone give me a real price comparison vs the cost of stick building. What I'd read said that it is comparible to 2x6 construction, but I'm not sure how much 2x6 construction is compared to 2x4.

Thanks for you time,

[Evodyne]

Hi Deviant. Can't say I have direct experience. What I can tell you is that they put up six houses down the road using SIP panels. Each came as a "kit" on one or two trucks. I drove by one day and there were six foundations. Two days later three were under roof and two days after that they all were. If minimal construction time is important this appears to be the way to go.

Evodyne

[runswithscissor]

I built my timberframe home with SIP. I am pleased with the outcome, but the path was bumpy. I sent my "blueprints" to a company in Tacoma, Wa. I confirmed in advance that they could read and use Autocad Lt, so I sent them a disc. These were the same plans that were complete enough for all the necessary permits, engineering and inspections. Upon delivery, panels were the wrong size, windows/doors in the wrong place. When confronted, the company admitted that the merely printed out my plans and had one of their draftsman redraw them, but the could have used my Autocad stuff directly to the CNC controller. Any construction time the panels saved me was lost to onsite modification. Item next, make sure when you do your cost calculations that you factor in the costs of the 2x6 filler for top, bottom and corners. Also, the panels were supposed to be 5.5 in of foam. A 2x6 should have slid right in the factory slot. I ended up putting about a 15 degree bevel on every filler to get it to fit without distorting the OSB skin. Item next, for the bevel end cuts on the roof panels, I had to have 2x14 cut at the mill so I could get the correct edge angles to fit in the edge bevel slots. Item next, assembly. Joints are joined with scews called Big Blues. They are about 12" long, and work like a champ. Get a good drill driver to apply them. You will be using a mastic that is non-petroleum based so that it is compatible with the foam. Warning: it sticks to EVERYTHING. I've got the partially blue wardrobe to prove it. You will need some really lond ratchet straps with hooks on the ends to pull together "resistant" panels. They work great. With all that said, my final product is as tight as a styrofoam cup. I did the work myself (with a crew I hired and trained) so if you have questions, I will try to answer.

[Deviant]

Runswithscissor,

Have you compared your heating/cooling bills? I'm curious how much of a different they actually make.

As for the construction, there seems to be several different makers/connectors. I've seen some panels that use ripped osb decking to connect the panels with some type of foam that filled the void. Others use 2x6's to connect the panels with foam adhesive. Who was the manufacturer of your panels and the company that your ordered your kit from.

Did you have a chance to calculate your total costs? Also, on your kit did you order everything, or just the shell? I'm trying to get a ballpark number on how much it's going to cost me. All the companies that I have contacted haven't been willing to give me a rough cost per square foot. Albeit, I'm trying to do as much information via internet/email as possible.

Did you build your house with a basement? I'm toying with the idea of building a basement using superior walls, preconstructed walls. Looks to be a very neat system similar to the SIPS.

Evodyne. Thanks for the confirmation on the quick build. That isn't a huge deal for me, but is definately a perk. I'm more excited about the heating/cooling savings and the "in theory" perfectly straight walls. I hate dealing with trying to find straight wood at the local lumber yards. Last project I built, I had to send back around 50 2x4's out of a pile of 400, because they were unusable. I guess that's ok, but I like the idea of building a house with machinist tolerances.

Thanks for the follow up.

[Deviant]

Oh, forgot.

How long did it take to get your house to a window/door/shingled state. How long do you think it would have taken if your panels were correct when they arrived?

((I'm sure I;ll have more questions, but I know I left those out.))

Thanks

[runswithscissor]

I checked my receipts, and in 2003 when I placed the order, the wall package was $15,000 and the roof package was another $10,000. That is for the shell only. With a trained crew working full time, I estimate 6 weeks to enclosure. I have another full time job, so it was part time with an untrained crew. You would need a crane to fly the panels into place. I borrowed one from a friend, and (thanks to the Army) operated it myself. SInce this was a "from scratch" house, I can't do a good heating cost comparison, but will give you my subjective observations. I am using a ground source heat pump. For the first two years, I did not even bother to turn on the air conditioning during the heat of summer and the house never got over 72 deg. My winter heating costs are the same as the "super good cents" supposedly super insulated house next door. The house next door is 1600 sf, mine is over 2800 sf. Also, that amount compares 2003 and 2005, and is NOT adjusted for inflation. My panels came from Premier Panels in Fife, Wa. Joints in the field were OSB strips that slid into slots in the foam, glued, then pneumatic nailed. The 2x6 were only on corners, and around doors and windows. They were indeed straight, flat and square. There were pre cut chases at 24", 48" hori and every 48" vert. That worked for wiring and feeding my PEX plumbing. It won't work for vent stacks, and requires some preplaning to make the chases fit your plan. It took about two panels until I remembered to pre drill through the bottom plate and deck. It can be done from below, but not as easily as drilling BEFORE installation. Before I did panels again, I would study other wall systems, maybe even Rastra blocks. I like the structural strength, flexibility, and the DIY capabilities.

[Deviant]

I've looked at a few of the ICF type construction methods.

http://www.greenblock.com/

Is the current one that I'm liking a good bit.

I'm just not sure how much that would increase the construction costs. I believe that most of the ICF type building systems have to be done in stages with a semi-trained crew. Where as the SIPS could be done with a couple buddies in a good weekend of work. ((Assuming that the panels come correct.)) Also, I was concerned with possible voids in the cement. I'm not sure how much of a concern this is, but I haven't seen any vibration of the walls mentioned in the online infomercials.

Did you have any moisture problems with the osb decking? Do you think that could have effect the fitting problems that you experienced? I'm just concerned with osb swelling or coming apart before the building is put together and weather proofed.

As with any project, the biggest concern is the lack of real numbers to budget with. I'd hate to jump into the water half blind, and be unable to finish construction because I didn't realize that something else needed to be complete. At the same time, I'd hate to under build to save money.

Since this is my first time building a home, I ordered a couple dvds on general contracting. I hope that it answers alot of my questions reguarding the process of inspection, roughing out the lot etc. At the very least, I hope to become a more educated on what questions I need to be asking.

Sadly, I work full time. So most of the exterior will have to be done by 3rd party people. Assuming it can't be completed on a weekend. Anything inside, I am more than comfortable doing. I just need to get the house into a liveable state. Once there, I won't have to commute to work on the house.

[runswithscissor]

I did not have any problems with moisture. Most of my construction was in the rain. There was no delamination of the OSB, nor did I have any separation from the foam. I also saw no signs of swelling. I would anticipate at least an additional 10% on top of the cost of your shell. That is the planning factor I used.