Animosity between machinist & engineers?

[autobot]

Is there generally a small level of animosity between machinist and mechanical engineers who send designwork to the workshop to have fabricated? The former believing the latter is often impractical and doesnt know the reality of machining and over complicates designs and also believing they could do their job designing it also, and the latter thinking they know everything when they dont and thinking they can do the job of the machinist also when they cant. Sort of like the battle of the classes between blue and quasi-blue/white collar workers? The same sort of animosity you get between engineers and bean counters, and employees with human resources, etc etc.

[underthetire]

well, many years ago I got a job on my desk. Had a rectangle and two slots on either side. dimensions were +/-.002 with a true position call out of .002. .09 thick aluminum. Turns out, it was an adapter plate so he could put a new stereo in his chevy van. Ive also worked with some fantastic engineers.

[Al_The_Man]

Probably stems from when either side does not have exposure or experience in the others field of expertise.
And when one of either field that does have that exposure meets one of the other, there is criticism.
I have worked with both, and some machinist are just not willing to go beyond their particular practical environment, just as some engineers I have met are OK if faced with a purely theoretical question that can be solved within their sphere of academic learning, but as Albert Einstein said in a roundabout way, Knowledge is not alot of use without also possessing imagination.
And that applies to both sides, IMO.
Al.

[RICHARD ZASTROW]

Once upon a time; long, long ago; those of use who became engineers were co-op students who worked on the machine shop floor when not in class rooms.

Then there were those of us who served and completed a machinists apprenticeship and gained our degree's.

You can tell who they were because their design work is produce-able.

Unfortunately, most are older than I and I,m no spring chicken (not much of a rooster anymore either) LOL

Dick Z

[RalphWilson]

Is there generally a small level of animosity between machinist and mechanical engineers who send designwork to the workshop to have fabricated? The former believing the latter is often impractical and doesnt know the reality of machining and over complicates designs and also believing they could do their job designing it also, and the latter thinking they know everything when they dont and thinking they can do the job of the machinist also when they cant. Sort of like the battle of the classes between blue and quasi-blue/white collar workers? The same sort of animosity you get between engineers and bean counters, and employees with human resources, etc etc.

I just had to re post this.
In 1981, I was in my second year of my Senior year of high school.
The Course was Technical Maniacal design and construction.
I designed a Fly fishing Reel , on paper and Made it it in the second year.
It' Wade in at 2.5lbs. LOL
I decided right then; it was much more fun making the part than designing it.
So I have been a Machinist ever since.
I love it.
I get to Play with some really big toys.
I may not get paid a lot, but I have a ball doing it.
Go engineers , Go engineers, and make me a drawing , so I can make something.
I have the total freedom to create how I see fit and if something comes along that I can't make . I'll eather ask for the equpment to make it or ask for some more Torrance on sizes, get down and hand machine the parts to fit.
It all goes back to the hammer and chisel.Speeds and Feeds and Trig.

[Caprirs]

It is human nature to cling to one's own ignorance instead of doing the work to learn something new. I have also found such antagonistic attitudes are contagious at all levels of experience and education. It is an unfortunate toxin in the work place.

[lancut]

In my time in the the shop floor I have run in to what I call a practical engineers and some without much common sense, but.. boy can they spit out numbers!...

[LazyMan]

well, many years ago I got a job on my desk. Had a rectangle and two slots on either side. dimensions were +/-.002 with a true position call out of .002. .09 thick aluminum. Turns out, it was an adapter plate so he could put a new stereo in his chevy van.

At least he specified a tolerance.

[lancut]

"At least he specified a tolerance. "

LOL

[Matt McColley]

You can't learn what you need to be a really good engineer by just sitting in a classroom or behind a desk. I've worked with a few who just plain didn't like to get there hands dirty (and probably spent a good deal of time combing their hair in front of a mirror).

On the flip side, if you are supervising operations, you can quickly lose sight of the big flick if you are up to your elbows in a machine.

Some get the bug young and have go-carts and motorcycles torn apart and put back together while still wee tikes. Putting a Mech. E. degree on top of that can be a great combination.

Unfortunately, many engineers get in organizations in which the only way to make "the big bucks" is to sell your soul and transition into management (and for some, this is just fine, because they're only really in it for the money anyways).

I'd wager a guess that most of the engineers I know, do very little, if any "real" engineering.

Humility is a good trait, which makes people a pleasure to work with. And this goes both ways. I had to get a system checkout signed off from a cocky, second class machinist mate once, who shot down my answer to his question and then proceeded to spew out the most half cocked, B.S. explanation, that defied multiple laws of physics. He was a little surprised when I stood my ground and argued with him. But rather than even consider that he might have a hole or two in his understanding, he just dismissed my logic as gibberish and signed me off to get rid of me. I'm sure he went on to make a few $/!#~% engineer comments to all his MM students after I left.

[woodchucker1]

I am neither an engineer nor a machinist. I totally work with wood, but I agree that things need to be logical yet creative. Also, the creative mind lends itself toward a phenomenon of trial and error, correction, improvement and ultimately achieving the grandslam product. At present my interest in CNC machining is with wood, but who knows where this new found feverish compulsion will lead! I found my fever from the following site! Build Your Own CNC Router Machine