eBay - Buying and Selling (Things YOU Should Know)

[Treischl]

This may seem a little off topic, but a lot of us get our material by shopping on eBay. Some of us increase the thickness of our wallets by selling things we no longer need on eBay. I had not used eBay in about 4-5 years and I got a rude awakening in the last few weeks! Read on!

I had (4) really primo precision ballscrews and recirculating nuts that had come out of an EDM machine. 20mm dia, about 17 inches of travel. I posted them on eBay with a starting bid of $100 as a group. 7 days later, no bids. With about 5 seconds left, one bid, for $102.50. Sold. WHAT!!!! There were 26 watchers!

Then I listed a hand carved swan bow saw that I had sold a duplicate of 7 years ago for about $375. Started that at $100. With 36 minutes left, no bids, 37 watchers. I ended the auction. I wanted to know what was going on!

Did some research. Seems the popular thing to do on eBay these days is to use an automated bidding system referred to as a "Sniper". Basically it waits until the last few seconds of an auction to start bidding. Since eBay auctions end at a fixed time on a clock, the bidding doesn't get a chance to go up where it might go in a real auction. Think of it this way: In the last ten seconds or so, eBay receives about 25 bids of $101-102.50 for your item. It has to sort them out. By the time it does,the auction has ended. It refuses to accept higher bids after the time has ended. Your item just sold for a nice low bid!

Now I am not whining about this practice, it is what it is. eBay is not going to change it. But if you are selling, you need to be aware of it. Here is the problem: If you put a high reserve, you don't many bids. If you put a high starting bid, you don't get bids. So what do you do?

You get yourself "verified" by eBay so you can list your item as "Buy It Now-Make An Offer"

I did that and relisted the bow saw at $300. Within hours I had an offer of $200. Amazing.

If you are buying and want to get a good deal, you might want to consider getting yourself one of those sniper programs. Otherwise you stand an excellent chance of being outbid by a computer program on things you want.

See, it does work both ways. I don't like it, but there is nothing I can do to change it.

[ger21]

Even though they used a sniper, there just wasn't any demand. I've used a sniper for many years, but frequently get outbid. While a sniper can get you items cheaper, if there's demand for that item, then you need to place a high enough bid to win it. Typically, I'll figure out what I'm willing to spend, and enter that amount. When I lose an auction, it's usually by $1 or $2, whatever the bid increment is. If I really want something, I'll make my bid what the item is worth, not just what I'm willing to pay.

For some items, timing plays a big role. I sell some items that I make, and can go weeks with listings ending with no bids. Then I'll sell 3 in one week.

I've also found that most "watchers" don't seem to place bids, so it's not necessarily an indication of whether or not an item will sell.

And lastly, I've found that more people seem to prefer buy it now, rather than bidding.

[Riceburner98]

Sometimes when I "watch" an item, it's because I have one similar to sell and I just want to see what the going rate is.. I too usually get more watchers than bids on stuff that I sell.. What I've learned most recently on eBay is that you now get pretty well hosed as a seller. I sold a couple things and got a $40 invoice from eBay. I immediately said "WTF", and after calculating it out you lose something like 12% now. I think it was a 9% hit from eBay directly, then 3% from Paypal. And now they charge a percentage of the shipping cost too, so you're getting nailed even harder to sell heavy things. It's getting a little nuts.

Wish I had seen the ballscrews, you would have at least got $103 for them! Probably a little more.. I "snipe" auctions sometimes, but not with a program. I just manually enter a bid near the end. If I win, great, if not, I guess that guy wanted it more. What's annoying is when an auction ends at 3 or 4am - I always get outbid on those (unless it's something really good and I stay up,) and sometimes for more than you can buy the thing new in a store..?

[underthetire]

I was shocked at my last invoice from Ebay. Sold a airplane transmitter for 100, a couple parts for a mustang, total was about 250.00 Then comes the 33.00 invoice. I now sell any of my car parts on specific forums, with a reasonable price. That 10.00 extra on Ebay I made cost me 15 more !

[Treischl]

ger21:

There was a demand alright, right after I ended the auction, I received 4 messages from people using automated bidders asking why I had ended the auction because they had placed bids timed for the last few moments. They are looking to get stuff as cheap as possible (nothing wrong with that), but as a SELLER you need to understand how those things work.

By the way, I sent them all a message telling them they could make an "offer" after I relisted it using "Buy It Now-Make an Offer", not a one has done that. Just confirms in my mind that they do not want a level playing field. So be it. We can all play the game.

Your remark about buyers seeming to prefer "Buy It Now" may indicate that they are tired of the snipers? There is an interesting article about all this on Wikipedia.

As for some of the comments about eBay taking a cut on shipping? I can almost understand that! Some of the sellers are selling things dirt cheap and then charging outlandish shipping fees to make a profit. Some people's children! I tell ya!

[Riceburner98]

True on the shipping.. I guess we had to see that one coming! Buy-it-now for $.01, $34.00 shipping, what a deal!

[MaxMekker]

I only buy thing's on ebay with "buy it now" don't bother with auctions, "make an offer" is also some thing I can use if I want to.
Just my opinion :-)

[Hans_G]

For ebay auctions, there are 2 kinds of bidders- those who get it and those who don't. The ones who get it, snipe. As a seller, you want to draw in the other kind of bidder- the ones who think they might get the $1000 widget for $9.99. It's fun to be "winning" that valuable item with only 3 days to go. Get 4 people to bid on an item at $10, 11, 12, 15 and they will start to think "you know, it's still cheap at $50, 100, 200". That's why setting a low initial price works. But there does need to be a market for the item.

The price of the item is set by the second highest bidder. The guy who buys it pays one bid increment more.

[dertsap]

I was shocked at my last invoice from Ebay. Sold a airplane transmitter for 100, a couple parts for a mustang, total was about 250.00 Then comes the 33.00 invoice. I now sell any of my car parts on specific forums, with a reasonable price. That 10.00 extra on Ebay I made cost me 15 more !

and on top how much did paypal gouge you for
I do online auctions daily and its sick how much I shell out to ebay fees and paypal

[Mountaincraft]

ger21:
Your remark about buyers seeming to prefer "Buy It Now" may indicate that they are tired of the snipers?

Personally.. I prefer the whole 'buy it now' thing over the auctions... I search all those first, and only go the auction route if absolutely necessary.. I tired of the "get my hopes up and lose by a dollar in the last minute" routine a long time ago.....

[tjskcnc]

On eBay, I just put in what I am willing to pay. It automatically bids up to my max. After that, someone else is welcome to it.

[louieatienza]

I'm a sniper, been doing it since I started on eBay, which is about 2001. Itt's the only sane way to bid, so that I don't get caught up in the heat of a bidding war... and I've been there!

What sucks now is that you HAVE to use PayPal unless you have your own credit card machine, so you Pay eBay a 3% commision over the listing fee, then pay PayPal a 3% fee, and PayPal is owned by eBay, so in actuality you're probably paying about 10% as a seller. Every live auction I've ever been to, the buyer pays all the fees - the cost of getting what you need....

Here's the deal: Pick a threshold, the highest you'll pay for something, and set that as your snipe price. Set up the sniper bot to place the bid about 4-6 seconds before the auction end. Prepare to lose out to another sniper at work with a T1 line and four friends on standby, or maybe with multiple accounts. I don't care if the winning bid is $1 over my max bid.

Sometimes sellers employ shills to jack up the bid. I can spot them a mile away (just check the bid history and their past purchases). Sometimes people do it just to screw around with other prople on popular items. Check everyone eho's bidding as well as the seller. If there are people bidding with 100% positive feedback, but their bid history shows all they bought were tee-shirts for the last 2 months and now are bidding on a ballscrew, that's a good sign to bail. Likewise with the seller... not all the time but be cautious. Email the seller for more pics. See how fast the response is.

Another dirty eBay fact of life is the backdoor deal. I've been backdoored a few times, and have to admit I've done my share of backdooring. I do try to make it beneficial to the seller by offering a "package deal" on their stuff. I laugh at what I've paid for things, you never know. The worst they can say no, and you move on...

Note: on Best Offer, if you lowball more than three times on Best Offer in an attempt to fish for the bottom line price, you may get locked out altogether from the auction - Beware! I find when you get up to about $300, you can make an offer $100 less and about 60% of the time it's accepted. The rest, either the offer is declined or a counteroffer is proposed. This is a good time to haggle as the seller is motivated to move his stuff. If you can exchange information outside of eBay you might be able to work something out; but them you won't be under the "umbrella" of buyer protection.

Speaking of "buyer" protection, eBay has gone out of their way to protect the buyer in such a way that they hurt part time or small business sellers. Thye won't release money until positive feedback or 30 days have passed, and even then they slack off, making interest every second your dollar is with them, and then charging YOU a fee for being THEIR bank. This IMO gives the buyer too much leverage, and unless you are a larger seller that can absorb costs in the short run, you're footing the shipping costs AND are out your merchancise. Again I believe this is eBay's attempt to shut out some of the smaller sellers, and use our money to earn interest.

Treischl, how did you end the auction with 36 minutes. From past experiece, once there's a bid, the auction cannot be stopped 12 hours before auction end. I've had to get a friend to bid the item and win it back for me, and I had to absorb the fees.

As for timing, you almost never want to sell something between December 26 and April 15, but usually after tax season, things pick up. Conversely this is a good time to buy, as there aren't as many bids. Unfortunately, you just blew a wad for Christmas, and your credit card is maxed!

As for shipping: I wanted to get one of the air cooled spindles and VFDs on eBay. In fact I just received it today, and the quality so far looks realy good, to my surprise. The shipping on the spindle was $110 or so, and the VFD about $44 - or vice versa. The package deal cost was cheaper, but the shipping was $222! I made an offer $100 below the BIN. Got the counteroffer for $50 off. I then made the counteroffer for $85 off BIN, explaining their shipping 'gaffe'. They accepted the counteroffer! So I got he package deal, and an net reduction in the shipping, and I saved a few dollars overall, without lowballing. A win-win...