An old fool scammed, warning

[gil.c]

Not an easy thread to post. I and my son bought a Bobcat
on Craigslist last Friday. It was our first experience using Craigslist. There were some warning flags but we figured we were covered with the buyer/seller protection. After emails from the seller we went to my bank to use their connections with Western Union and sent half payment, $2800, as instructed. Later we received an email from Anthony Goldstein(first flag)@msn.com that he couldn't start shipment until paid in full. So we are screwed. I am not one to trust anyone on such dealings but how can Craigslist, Western Union and the bank be unaware of violations? How can people do business with Craigslist and not be scammed? If anyone out there has any experiences or info that would help me or other potential fools I would appreciate hearing from you. Thanks

[Al_The_Man]

The amount of scams out there are enormous, my first flag is Western Union.
I had one attempted on me on a Kijiji listing of mine.
See Scam on CNCzone classifieds
for typical examples.
Al.

[Twoeyes]

Does the bank or western union have any options? Buying unseen is pretty risky. Also if I was a seller, the machine would not leave my hands until paid in full, But if he instructed you otherwise...

I take it the bobcat is not local, otherwise you would have gotten a bill of sale, address and phone of the seller and gone to small claims court if there was a problem.

If the price is too incredible, its likely to be a scam. I think $5600 for a bobcat would be a well used, high hour machine. I see near new tractors all the time for crazy low prices. That should be an instant flag.

I am curious why your first flag is his name? Not profiling are we???



From western union FAQ

6. Does Western Union offer an escrow service or any kind of buyer protection?


Western Union does not offer an escrow service or any type of "purchase protection" policy. Western Union's business is to transfer funds from a sender to a receiver. We caution people who use our services against sending money to people they don't know. It is the sender's responsibility to know the party to which the funds are being sent. Using a fictitious name or changing the Receiver name after the money transfer has been sent is not a guaranteed means of securing funds. If a receiver presents proper identification with the same name as on the money transfer, payment will be made.

Be wary of 3rd party "collection" or "holding" services unless they are a reputable, licensed escrow service. Western Union is not an escrow service, should not be used as an escrow service and is currently not affiliated with any escrow services.



7. What can I do if I suspect fraud or am a victim of fraud?


If you have just sent a money transfer transaction and suspect that you may be a victim of fraud, ask the sales clerk to stop your transaction immediately or call Western Union. If the transfer has not been completed, your principal and fees will be refunded.

Contact your State Attorney General's Office of Consumer Affairs if you are uncertain or suspicious of a telephone, mail or email solicitation.

If you feel you have been the victim of fraud, you can access the Internet Fraud Complaint Center (IFCC) at http://www.ifccfbi.gov/ or contact the Federal Trade Commission through their web site at Federal Trade Commission.

[Twoeyes]

Again, sorry to hear your troubles.

Craigslist is not "unaware" of scams. With the way it works, they have no way to verify buyers and sellers. I have bought many things off of Craigslist but always local pickup. I agree it needs to be cleaned up.

craigslist | about > scams

[gil.c]

Thanks Al and Twoeyes for your response.

I think Western Union could change the way they do business but they don't have to care with their disclaimer. We failed to check their information prior to the transaction by not second guessing an established business.

The bank needs to install a policy to limit their practice to only known recipients of the sender. My son found later Friday that a branch of the same bank across town would have denied the transaction because it looked like a fraud from the same paper work that my bank passed.

Your point about the low price was a flag to us also. But there were 5 machines on Creaigslist in that price range and probably all were scams.

The flag on Anthony Goldstein was as a joke. He is a Harry Potter character. (Google it)

Thanks again for your good advice and hopefully others will benefit from it.

I'm still open to more feedback from others out there.

[packrat]

I am not one to trust anyone on such dealings but how can Craigslist, Western Union and the bank be unaware of violations? How can people do business with Craigslist and not be scammed? If anyone out there has any experiences or info that would help me or other potential fools I would appreciate hearing from you. Thanks

Not to sound hard or cause offense, but why is it Craigslist,Western Union, or a banks business to protect YOU? Why would you buy a piece of equipment like that site unseen or from a distance? Did you check with the local(sellers) BBB?

The old saying 'buyer beware' fits today as much as it did back when.

By the way, are you interested in a bridge I own in New York City? Make you a great deal!

[underthetire]

That sucks. You really can't doma thing about it. That's the only reason I put up with pay pal.

[DouglasR]

I've bought a lot of things on Craigs over the years and never a problem. However, "Buyer Beware" means a lot too. Unfortunately, these scams exist and there isn't much you can do once burned. Some banks "may" flag certain things, but then, really, how do they know who is good and who is bad? Ditto for Western Union.

At least you didn't send the whole amount!

[gil.c]

packrat,
Thanks for joining in. I agree with what you say. My mistake was trusting Craigslist and not checking it out. But I'm learning. I don't think I would buy a NY bridge from a guy in Ohio.

underthetire,
Thanks. At the time I had the idea Paypal would be used
with Cl. Deal was set up with WU. It was stupid to not check out the difference.

DouglasR,
Thanks for your input. I subscribe to buyer beware and failed when I should have used it. My point about bank practice is if I want to wire money to a relative or someone
I know, thats fine. If the bank denied my request because I
didn't know the party I would have walked out, warned, and not looked to used WU service elsewhere. And if I did so what would the bank have lost? If they get a percentage
(?) would it have ruined their day?

[keebler303]

The attached banner is at the top of EVERY for sale ad. Unfortunately you failed to heed to this warning.

It is YOUR responsibility to know who you are sending money to. No one else knows what your intent is. For example, say you were in a business venture with your old college roommate who was Chinese. He was to handle getting the goods from China and you were to handle distributing in the US. Maybe he needed some money for the initial purchase. Would that transaction look shady to an outsider? Maybe. Would you be pissed if the bank said they wouldn't send the money because it looked fishy? I bet you would. If the bank only had the $0.50 to lose, they would not offer the service at all. It is offered to help serve their customers. The worst thing they could do is make their customer mad and have them take their money elsewhere. You asked for a service, they provided the service. I think you may have received some useful advice had you asked them if your transaction looked fishy, if WU was often used for scams, etc. etc. The scammers intentionally put a deal thats too good to be true on there so that you will act on impulse and send the money to them without fully thinking through the transaction.

I have made many, many purchases through craigslist and I have always been happy with my transactions. That is because I go and see every item before I buy it and I always pay with cash or a cashiers check for bigger ticket items. You hand me the item, I'll hand you the cash. Done deal.

Matt

[gil.c]

Thanks for your input and opinions. You are right about WU info but not such as a banner. I haven't denied I failed
my responsibility on any posts. Wouldn't I consider my old
Chinese roommate a friend and be covered by my post above? Yes I would pissed if the bank wouldn't send a documented friend money. You made my point again that
it was a bank service, to me. I'm not sure the teller would have offered advice if asked. But a different branch of the same bank later on the same day, across town, said the same paper work looked like a fraud. That would have been
of service to me the first time. The scammers use WU because
it's the best ride they can get without hassles. Your experience of a simple transaction with Cl would be easy to
follow but wouldn't involve going to Canada.

[keebler303]

Are you saying the yellow banner wasn't there? I have never seen a listing without it. Why does it matter if it is a friend or not? The bank does not dictate who you should give money to and so I would think they care relatively little about whether it is your friend or not. In any case, one would assume that you would not send money to people you didn't trust. Quite frankly, I don't have many friends I would wire $2800 to, let alone strangers. I guess my point about craigslist was you won't get screwed if you buy local. Its always good to look at similar items on ebay to do a sanity check on prices.

I assume you found out all the scammers use western union after the fact, as others have said thats a red flag no matter the circumstances. I also make sure to take at least one buddy with me just to reduce the likelihood of getting jumped or something.

Sorry you got suckered, live and learn.

Matt