Is there a real need for a TRUE CNC school?

[aaron p]

Being a graduate from a hardcore high performance automotive engine machining, assembly, and theory school and now working in the CNC world, I see a need for a real CNC school. I see alot of guys that have been "machining" for some time and yet dont know the simple fundamental things of machining such as "The chip takes the heat out of the part". Do yall think there is a need for a real CNC school? Mills, lathes, EDM, etc..
Covers tooling and coatings, theorys, machine shop math, Mastercam software, milling, turning/boring, threading, and sinker and wire EDM. Teach G&M code as well as some macros. I went to www.samracing.com
I know alot of people would want to learn this trade but dont want to deal with a community college or big college enviroment and just want to get to the good stuff. Thoughts?

[SanDiegoCNC]

Originally Posted by aaron p Being a graduate from a hardcore high performance automotive engine machining, assembly, and theory school and now working in the CNC world, I see a need for a real CNC school. I see alot of guys that have been "machining" for some time and yet dont know the simple fundamental things of machining such as "The chip takes the heat out of the part". Do yall think there is a need for a real CNC school? Mills, lathes, EDM, etc.. Covers tooling and coatings, theorys, machine shop math, Mastercam software, milling, turning/boring, threading, and sinker and wire EDM. Teach G&M code as well as some macros. I went to www.samracing.com I know alot of people would want to learn this trade but dont want to deal with a community college or big college enviroment and just want to get to the good stuff. Thoughts?

Good luck with that. It seems like the machinist trade here in SoCal is almost gone. With the border so close, China making parts cheaply, and the cost of living so high here, many skilled machinists have left the area. The guys that are replacing skilled machinists are nothing more than 'button pushers'. Some aren't even qualified being called that.

Just my 2 cents...

[ImanCarrot]

The guys that are replacing skilled machinists are nothing more than 'button pushers'. Some aren't even qualified being called that.

Second that here in the UK, there are no real machinists/ engineers left due to the fact that they didn't get paid enough to live. There's no- one left to teach the practical side of machining anymore... sure there's plenty of theorists, but ask any one of them "how would you clamp this and what operation would you do first?" and they're at a loss.

My boss today said "hey why don't we bring that subcon job back in house" I said "It's more economical to sub con it, I'm tied up with other work". "yeah, but Bert used to do it" he said. Bert pushed the big green button, he didn't have a clue how to set X,Y,Z 0, how to fixture the part, what op to do first, feeds, speeds, what end mills to use, what coolant etc etc. The machine was basicaly set and he pushed a button... and he's a machinist?

Just my tuppence worth.

[Pure-Powder]

Then maybe Bert needs to go to cnc school :0)

[SanDiegoCNC]

Which leads to my second major gripe... people not wanting to learn. I run into that attitude all the time.'Machinists' already in the job that don't want to add to their skills. They don't realize that learning more makes them more valuable to the company and themselves. I've attempted on numerous occasions to teach those guys about programming, why the setups are done the way they are, etc. They don't care to learn so long as they're getting paid for 40 hours a week.

I don't bother to help those guys when they do eventually run into problems.

[ImanCarrot]

Gods you sound like me hehe.

We had a job yesterday, very complicated here's how the conversation went between me and my boss:

Boss: I got 3 questions Iain, 1, can it be done?
Me: 50/50 bos, it's bloody complicated.

Boss: 2 Can you do it?
Me: If it can be done then I can do it.

Boss: Do you want to do it?
Me: Hell yeah! the stuff I could learn off this job would be awesome! if we pull it off the profit margin will be huge! no- one else would touch this job.

I'm machining it now heh

I'm old school and I still love learning, but as you say a lot of others just like putting the hours in and point blank refuse to try new stuff. *end rant* lol

[SanDiegoCNC]

Originally Posted by ImanCarrot Gods you sound like me hehe. We had a job yesterday, very complicated here's how the conversation went between me and my boss: Boss: I got 3 questions Iain, 1, can it be done? Me: 50/50 bos, it's bloody complicated. Boss: 2 Can you do it? Me: If it can be done then I can do it. Boss: Do you want to do it? Me: Hell yeah! the stuff I could learn off this job would be awesome! if we pull it off the profit margin will be huge! no- one else would touch this job. I'm machining it now heh I'm old school and I still love learning, but as you say a lot of others just like putting the hours in and point blank refuse to try new stuff. *end rant* lol

LOL! Some of the best jobs are the ones other shops refuse to quote. That's where great reputations can be made.

What area of machining do you specialize in?

[ImanCarrot]

Optics- lenses for satelites, submarines, helicopters night vision etc... my lenses are everywhere, but this is a new one on me, it's a set of lenses that erm... how shall I put it.. go inside a woman (use your imagination) to look at the uterus- like I say, my lenses are everywhere lol.

[stevespo]

I'm not a machinist, so take this with a grain of salt. As somebody who cuts wooden parts (professionally) and occasionally collaborates with small local shops, I think you may be onto something with the school idea. I can see a real need for the small machine shops who continue to do R&D type work, prototyping, advanced development, maybe small production runs.

No doubt most of the large scale production has been shipped overseas, but when you're working on an idea, you need someone (locally) who you can brainstorm with. Someone who has both the breadth and depth of experience to get the job done creatively (and affordably). I've even seen these small shops get absorbed into the R&D groups at larger corporations because they proven themselves so valuable.

People say the machinist trade is dead, and that makes me sad. Maybe the trade that we knew with hundreds of guys standing at their lathes making the same parts day after day (like my grandfather did for GM for 40 years) is dead, but isn't there a new opportunity out there for the small shop? Fast turnaround, problem solving, individualized attention? People willing to take on risky jobs and new challenges?

I think a school that focused on those needs, and gave people enough experience to get a small shop up and running could be very worthwhile. It takes a different kind of person to run those shops and perhaps a different type of training that is hard to get other places, or even on the job.

Am I naive or just too optimistic? People are asking me all the time to recommend shops to do prototypes and they're very hard to find.

Steve

[SanDiegoCNC]

Originally Posted by ImanCarrot Optics- lenses for satelites, submarines, helicopters night vision etc... my lenses are everywhere, but this is a new one on me, it's a set of lenses that erm... how shall I put it.. go inside a woman (use your imagination) to look at the uterus- like I say, my lenses are everywhere lol.

That's cool! And an eyeful too.

I specialize in multi-axis lathes. Currently I'm joined at the hip to a Mori Seiki ZT1500 making parts for my employer's UAV line.

[SanDiegoCNC]

Originally Posted by stevespo Am I naive or just too optimistic? People are asking me all the time to recommend shops to do prototypes and they're very hard to find. Steve

What part of the States are you in?

[stevespo]

Boston area. There's a great shop in my neighborhood, but they tend to be pretty busy. Most of the other shops just laugh at you when you walk in with a small part or one of a kind item. They don't want to touch it if the billable hours don't add up to huge $$$. I wonder why they're laying people off and closing down...

Steve