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Thread: How to Set up a Huanyang VFD and 2.2KW Air Cooled Spindle

  1. #41
    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to Set up a Huanyang VFD and 2.2KW Air Cooled Spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by john_m0ers View Post
    Hi, after reading so many frustrating ( and confusing comments ), I and I'm sure many other people simply aren't sure about connections. Here in the uk we have 240v single phase, with brown live, blue neutral and gren/yellow earth (ground). To make matters worse there are several grounding methods. Our house was re-wired as p.m.e, and as such the incoming ground and neutral wires are joined where they enter the house. Looking at the schematic for the vfd, the mains input 2 or three phase goes through a bridge rectifier. So I assume live goes to R neutral to S or T, and earth to earth/ground. It is very confusing to here that you have two lives and ground, surely this would not work into a bridge rectifier. But hey, after reading all the different supply types and voltages I'm amazed anything but three phase works.
    Regards john
    Way back in the last century, I obtained my UK Industrial Electricians license, at that time it was a no-no for an installer to allow the Neutral and Earth to come in contact Anywhere in the installation, Earth was connected at the star point only.
    I believe now, things have changed a lot.
    In the UK you have 240v single phase which consists of one phase and a star point earth grounded neutral of a 3ph transformer, here in N.A. the domestic supply is a 240v 1phase transformer with centre tapped secondary, the C.T. being the earthed neutral for 120v-0-120v , as far as the input to the VFD which usually consists of a 3phase rectifer that is either fed with 3ph or 2 conductors of a 240v supply, it can tell no difference on the nature of the 240v 1ph supply.
    One section of the 3ph rectifier is used as a 1ph bridge
    Al..
    .

    Last edited by Al_The_Man; 02-02-2019 at 12:04 PM.
    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

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    Default Re: How to Set up a Huanyang VFD and 2.2KW Air Cooled Spindle

    So if you are in the UK and have a earth wire on pin 4 do you need to, or should you need to, earth the cable shield? If you do. Where and how do you do this?

    this thread got a bit confusing to be honest. I'm just glad earth is earth in the UK.



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    Community Moderator Al_The_Man's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to Set up a Huanyang VFD and 2.2KW Air Cooled Spindle

    UK three conductors, L, N, E. 230v
    The earth ground used to be connected at the supply transformer only, and you picked it up locally via a metalic water pipe or ground rod.
    I believe things have changed now.
    Just the same as N.A., where the earth is referenced to the neutral in the supply panel.
    Otherwise the earth ground is treated the same.
    I have been away from the UK for a few decades now.
    Al..

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

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    Default Re: How to Set up a Huanyang VFD and 2.2KW Air Cooled Spindle

    Thanks Al.
    So what do I do with the cable shielding?
    Should that need connecting to the earth on the VFD?
    it all about EM noise control.



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    Default Re: How to Set up a Huanyang VFD and 2.2KW Air Cooled Spindle

    Now shielding is normally connected to earth ground at each end.
    Ensure the motor frame is also connected to GND as well as all metallic parts of the machine.
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
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    Default Re: How to Set up a Huanyang VFD and 2.2KW Air Cooled Spindle

    That might be problematic.
    Have you got any pictures on how you did yours.
    I don't fancy drilling a hole into my concrete floor to instal a earth spike.



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    Default Re: How to Set up a Huanyang VFD and 2.2KW Air Cooled Spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by simjim33 View Post
    I don't fancy drilling a hole into my concrete floor to instal a earth spike.
    You mean you don't have access to a GND conductor from the service?
    Al.

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

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    Default Re: How to Set up a Huanyang VFD and 2.2KW Air Cooled Spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by Al_The_Man View Post
    You mean you don't have access to a GND conductor from the service?
    Al.
    All uk instals need a earth circuit. All MCB are earthed through ether a mains water system or in my case a earth spike.
    The whole house circuit is feed from the MCB which receives the 230 100amp mains NG supply.

    That is split up into the required circuits (I know you know this but this is for the benefit of people who don’t)
    So the garage where my router is based has a supply from the MCB. The feed gets split by the garage MCB and we are all earthed happily.

    What I’m not clear on is do I need to Earth the VFD cable shielding?
    If I do. Where would be a good place to earth it.
    If it’s a question of attaching the shielding to the motor housing and the earth on the VFD that’s fine.
    I have a four core cable one of which is connected to earth on the VFD with the other end coming through pin 4 on the motor which gets attached to the motor top plate via a tapped hole drilled into the top cover.

    Ok so if I have to earth the shield tha runsa along the other of the cable where do I earth that too?
    Will connecting shielding to the machine and the earth on the VFD create a earth loop?



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    Default Re: How to Set up a Huanyang VFD and 2.2KW Air Cooled Spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by simjim33 View Post
    That might be problematic.
    Have you got any pictures on how you did yours.
    I don't fancy drilling a hole into my concrete floor to instal a earth spike.
    Which you can not do

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: How to Set up a Huanyang VFD and 2.2KW Air Cooled Spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by simjim33 View Post
    All uk instals need a earth circuit. All MCB are earthed through ether a mains water system or in my case a earth spike.
    The whole house circuit is feed from the MCB which receives the 230 100amp mains NG supply.

    That is split up into the required circuits (I know you know this but this is for the benefit of people who don’t)
    So the garage where my router is based has a supply from the MCB. The feed gets split by the garage MCB and we are all earthed happily.

    What I’m not clear on is do I need to Earth the VFD cable shielding?
    If I do. Where would be a good place to earth it.
    If it’s a question of attaching the shielding to the motor housing and the earth on the VFD that’s fine.
    I have a four core cable one of which is connected to earth on the VFD with the other end coming through pin 4 on the motor which gets attached to the motor top plate via a tapped hole drilled into the top cover.

    Ok so if I have to earth the shield tha runsa along the other of the cable where do I earth that too?
    Will connecting shielding to the machine and the earth on the VFD create a earth loop?
    This is how you ground the shields the Cabinet or metal box that everything is mounted in is Earth /Grounded, then it is quite simple to then Terminate the shields as per snip

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails How to Set up a Huanyang VFD and 2.2KW Air Cooled Spindle-grounding-shields-7-png  
    Mactec54


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    Default Re: How to Set up a Huanyang VFD and 2.2KW Air Cooled Spindle

    It’s not my garage.
    The floor has a vaper layer under the slab which I do not want to penatrate.
    Besides we have a earth circuit within our instals.
    I just don’t want a earth loop to deal with.
    If it’s fine to wire it through the VFD Earth (so by extension the main earth circuit) that’s fine.
    As long as I don’t make issues for my self. That’s all I’m worried about.



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    Default Re: How to Set up a Huanyang VFD and 2.2KW Air Cooled Spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    This is how you ground the shields the Cabinet or metal box that everything is mounted in is Earth /Grounded, then it is quite simple to then Terminate the shields as per snip

    Where was that diagram located. I must admit I have never seen that my spindles are a few years old.
    If there a updated manual now?



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    Default Re: How to Set up a Huanyang VFD and 2.2KW Air Cooled Spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by simjim33 View Post
    It’s not my garage.
    The floor has a vaper layer under the slab which I do not want to penatrate.
    Besides we have a earth circuit within our instals.
    I just don’t want a earth loop to deal with.
    If it’s fine to wire it through the VFD Earth (so by extension the main earth circuit) that’s fine.
    As long as I don’t make issues for my self. That’s all I’m worried about.
    The VFD Earth/Ground is for the Ground wires only

    A metal plate the VFD is mounted on need to be connected to Earth / Ground, this is called Ground plane and the mounting point of the Earth / Ground is called star point

    Your Shield is clamped direct to this plate

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails How to Set up a Huanyang VFD and 2.2KW Air Cooled Spindle-grounding-wire-mounting-png  
    Mactec54


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    Default Re: How to Set up a Huanyang VFD and 2.2KW Air Cooled Spindle

    I have my VFD mounted to a brick wall. Not on a metal plate.
    This is the second time i have run this spindle. well its the second time I have installed in on a router.
    The first time instal was replaced with a different system.
    I never earthed the shielding before.
    The VFD is also a plastic box.
    Are you saying the mains earth and the out put earth are not connected?
    This is old kit (five/six years) brining used again. In the "manual" it says not to connect a wire between the mains earth and the output earth. I assumed this was to prevent ground loops as they were connected internally.
    I have to say I'm no closer to understanding this than before. I will call in a sparky and have them do it.



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    Default Re: How to Set up a Huanyang VFD and 2.2KW Air Cooled Spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by simjim33 View Post
    Iy.
    I have to say I'm no closer to understanding this than before. I will call in a sparky and have them do it.
    Often the problem is that unless you can get an Industrial Electrician, Electricians in the residential field are often not familiar with them.
    Al.,

    CNC, Mechatronics Integration and Custom Machine Design

    “Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.”
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    Default Re: How to Set up a Huanyang VFD and 2.2KW Air Cooled Spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by simjim33 View Post
    I have my VFD mounted to a brick wall. Not on a metal plate.
    This is the second time i have run this spindle. well its the second time I have installed in on a router.
    The first time instal was replaced with a different system.
    I never earthed the shielding before.
    The VFD is also a plastic box.
    Are you saying the mains earth and the out put earth are not connected?
    This is old kit (five/six years) brining used again. In the "manual" it says not to connect a wire between the mains earth and the output earth. I assumed this was to prevent ground loops as they were connected internally.
    I have to say I'm no closer to understanding this than before. I will call in a sparky and have them do it.
    There is only one Earth/Ground, so have no clue as what you are referring to by output Earth/Ground

    The VFD must be Grounded to the Main Power Supply Earth / Ground the Shield also has to be Earth / Grounded

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: How to Set up a Huanyang VFD and 2.2KW Air Cooled Spindle

    Oh god!
    The VFD is earthed via the three pin plug in the electrical circuit.
    There are four cable and coming out of the VFD to the spindle.
    One is a earth.
    That earth wire is soldered into pin 4.
    Pin 4 goes nowhere when you take the spindle top off. So I have drilled and tapped the spindle top so I can fix a wire from pin 4 and attach it to the spindle top.

    Now the VFD is just screwed to the brick wall.
    If I need to Earth the shield. Can I earth it through the same point that wire 4 comes out of the VFD?



    Or what does that shielding actually do?
    Because as far as I can see it’s there to screen out EM noise!
    There is no point in grounding the shield if there is no point to ground too.
    I have no metal plate the VFD is mounted too. So that’s out.

    The VFD circuit is grounded/earthed via the mains circuit. As is the rest of the control circuits and motors.
    Right? I should have no noise to contend with.


    @ AL
    I have a industrial guy sorted with one phone call today.
    Beer money.
    I would still like to understand the thing form a UK perspective.
    Maybe I should not have bothered. Lol



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    Default Re: How to Set up a Huanyang VFD and 2.2KW Air Cooled Spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by simjim33 View Post
    Oh god!
    The VFD is earthed via the three pin plug in the electrical circuit.
    There are four cable and coming out of the VFD to the spindle.
    One is a earth.
    That earth wire is soldered into pin 4.
    Pin 4 goes nowhere when you take the spindle top off. So I have drilled and tapped the spindle top so I can fix a wire from pin 4 and attach it to the spindle top.

    Now the VFD is just screwed to the brick wall.
    If I need to Earth the shield. Can I earth it through the same point that wire 4 comes out of the VFD?



    Or what does that shielding actually do?
    Because as far as I can see it’s there to screen out EM noise!
    There is no point in grounding the shield if there is no point to ground too.
    I have no metal plate the VFD is mounted too. So that’s out.

    The VFD circuit is grounded/earthed via the mains circuit. As is the rest of the control circuits and motors.
    Right? I should have no noise to contend with.


    @ AL
    I have a industrial guy sorted with one phone call today.
    Beer money.
    I would still like to understand the thing form a UK perspective.
    Maybe I should not have bothered. Lol
    You should of explained that from the start, the only thing you have to figure out is how to Earth the shield and yes it can go to the same Ground connection as the VFD is using, so I don't know what all your fuss was about, I think your electrical friend will tell you the same as I just have, and if he knows his stuff he will tell you the shield will need to be Earthed as well

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: How to Set up a Huanyang VFD and 2.2KW Air Cooled Spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    You should of explained that from the start, the only thing you have to figure out is how to Earth the shield and yes it can go to the same Ground connection as the VFD is using, so I don't know what all your fuss was about, I think your electrical friend will tell you the same as I just have, and if he knows his stuff he will tell you the shield will need to be Earthed as well
    I did explain that. Right at the start!
    What I want I know is why are we earthing a shield?
    What’s the point of the shield?
    Is it to shield em leak?
    Or to guard against it?
    My 100amp mains supply cable has a shield to stop it being cut through by accident.
    If your circuits are earthed properly I don’t understand what the point of the shield is.
    After all your washing machine is a motor right? That’s create EM. But you don’t need a shielded cable to run it!



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    Default Re: How to Set up a Huanyang VFD and 2.2KW Air Cooled Spindle

    Quote Originally Posted by simjim33 View Post
    I did explain that. Right at the start!
    What I want I know is why are we earthing a shield?
    What’s the point of the shield?
    Is it to shield em leak?
    Or to guard against it?
    My 100amp mains supply cable has a shield to stop it being cut through by accident.
    If your circuits are earthed properly I don’t understand what the point of the shield is.
    After all your washing machine is a motor right? That’s create EM. But you don’t need a shielded cable to run it!
    The shield should be grounded at both ends from the vfd to the motor. depending on the nature of your machine its also good to ensure an extra ground path from the motor to the frame of the machine, that way in the case of an electrical failure you don't send substantial current through the linear bearings or the ballscrews.

    The 3 phases from the vfd are square waves of continuously varying duty cycle, they average out to get a sine wave current in the motor. the sharp rising and falling edges (and the ringing that occurs) is as high as 400 volts per microsecond and the frequency is as high as 1Mhz. the 350 volt bus of the vfd means there can be substantial current flowing at that frequency, as that +/-170 vdc square wave at the pwm frequency of the drive charges up and discharges the parasitic capacitance of the motor windings to ground, and that's the reason you need to ground the motor.. otherwise you can shock yourself pretty good on an ungrounded motor driven by a vfd, or the current will flow through something else and cause problems.

    even the voltage on the cable can radiate through near field capacitance into other signal wires and mess your machine up, shielding it solves that problem, but only if the shield is grounded to the vfd.



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How to Set up a Huanyang VFD and 2.2KW Air Cooled Spindle

How to Set up a Huanyang VFD and 2.2KW Air Cooled Spindle