New to swiss turning, what machine?

[anemachinebc]

We have in our budget to get a new swiss turn, now we are looking at machines. No one has experience where im at with swiss style machine and i was wondering who makes a good machine. Price is really no object for this project (a first) so we are looking at higher end machines. So far we have talked with citizen, star, and nomura. What are these machines like? Are they reliable? Is the service good for them? Any problems with these machines?

Adam

[davidw731]

We have 2 older citizen L25 they have been very reliable and accurate. We also have 4 tornos machines, they're much faster but tend to break down a little more often. For us tornos suppurt is much better and we almost always can make our own repairs with phone support. Citizen support not nearly as good. That all being said our next machine will probably be a Maier they seem to be well built and have many configurations to choose from and are well priced.

[kingfisher]

I have ran and owned Citizens and Stars. Citizen is one of the top of the line machines.

Now that I say that, my company has just built a new Swiss line for the US market. The machines are called Venture. My knowledge of swiss machines, these are going to be great machines for the money. If you are interested in some info just PM me.

[MikeMc]

I also have owned and run Citizens and Stars for years as well. I have to say, its is going to depend on the parts you plan on running in the machine. WIll it be short run parts? Long runs? Brass? Steel? The material and configuration will make all the difference in a recommendation.

Personally, I am a big buy American guy, and I have been waiting for a good American machine for quite some time. I have not seenthe Venture yet, but I tend to shy away from first generation machines from any manufacturer. May I ask where the Veture is being made and assembled?

[cogsman1]

Go with Citizen! The extra cost will be nothing compared to the benefits of the service, training and life long assistance you will get. Plus, in 15 years the machine will still be performing like day one with minimal upkeep.
Don't trust any one person, go visit current owners and ask the tough questions.

[PixMan]

I've run Citizen, Star, Tsugami, Nomura and Maier CNC Swiss machines. They all have their features, benefits and failings.

Before selecting a brand, you should decide what kind of work you need to do, so what the size range of the machine should be. The size is the biggest decision which must made first, as it has great impact on the choices, pricing and capability of the machine. If 90% or more of your work for it is going to be less than 3/4" (or 20mm) diameter, get a 20mm machine. Going bigger sacrifices top speed and hence, productivity rates. OTOH, if the remaining 10% is up to 1-1/4" (or 32mm) diameter and lots are typically less than 500 pieces, maybe a 32mm machine makes sense.

Once you determined what the best size machine is, now you need to know how many tools would be best. I you make very complicated parts with cross holes, milled flats and/ or angles holes, you'll want a turret-type machine. If simple cross holes and flats, a simpler machine will do fine. The goal is to have the parts you make on it come off as complete as possible for the vast majority of parts. Inspect, wash and ship is a nice way to use the machines.

So...what kind of work do you do? How much of it do you do? Any growth potential? What materials will you be cutting? Answer some of these questions and I can help steer you toward the best choices for your application.

[kwmkoester]

Part of your decision should be based on the support of the distributor and how well they understand Swiss-type machines. If you are new to Swiss, you will need help, ask for an extra week or two of training a month or two after the initial installation, it gives you an opportunity to formulate questions and concerns and for the distributor to recognize bad habits. If they don't have knowledgable, local support then you could end up being one of the many single-Swiss-machine owners out there that haven't been supported and aren't productive. Your tooling habits may have to change, you have to get familiar with tools/tooling specific to small diameter machining. Since the heart of your machine will be the guiedebushing, you need to make sure you are putting the best stock, that you can afford, through it. If you are doing things right, you should have another Swiss within 6 months after your first. For the purpose of full disclosure, I am in sales with a well known Swiss-style OEM.