advice on new swiss purchase?

[panaceabea]

I am thinking about adding a small swiss machine to the shop . I need to turn aprox 10k small pins , plungers etc a month ranging from .15 diam up to aprox .375 and ranging in length from .45" up to 4" in length . I occasionaly need to run small batches of firing pins that are .31 diam x 6" long .


Any thoughts or advice on an affordable (less than $100k) swiss machine would be greatly appreciated . I see a number of Star and Citz machines on various auction sites that are extremley cheap but I am a little leary of adopting someone elses head ache and am probably going to buy new.

I would like live tooling at at least two side stations

Anyone here have exp with the Cubic swiss machines? They have a nice looking machine with live tooling for under $70k

All advice , thoughts and opinion greatly appreciated

[ProProcess]

For the your money, the number one consideration should be one of support. Find a local distributor with a long history with the line. That distributor should be very happy and comfortable taking you to a local user or two that could tell you about their likes and dislikes with both the machine and the distibutor. After that, consider the availablity of parts and service. If you have the best machine in the world but cannot get a $600. part for a week or two then a savings of $10K on the selling price evaportes painfully quick. After that it boils down to personal preference, what type of control do you like, is the tool layout cofortable, does it do "a little more" than I need ect, ect.
HTH
Good Luck.

[tobyaxis]

Tsugami at REM Sales.

http://www.remsales.com/

[panaceabea]

thanks for the link, those are some very nice looking machines

Anymore links to other swiss machines?

[tobyaxis]

Originally Posted by panaceabea thanks for the link, those are some very nice looking machines Anymore links to other swiss machines?

I have only worked with two, the Tsugami and Star (Star being located in Roslyn Heights, NY not 45 minutes from home). The Star being faster to set-up and overall workhorse and the Tsugami as a secondary mainly short common runs that didn't need much more than a program.

Both were very good machines and worked without failures. Then again they were new fresh off the rig.

Here is the Star Website
http://www.starcnc.com/index.html

[panaceabea]

I think I have settled on the star , now just down to which one

[tobyaxis]

Originally Posted by panaceabea I think I have settled on the star , now just down to which one

That depends on how complex the parts are.

[BYTHEBOOKBOB]

Take a look at Citizen machines- http://www.marucit.com/dist.html
We have 5 of them that we use every day. Great machines, incredible service.

[kingfisher]

I have owned Stars, Hardinge (Tsugami copy) and ran Citizens. The citizens are considered the cadillacs of the swiss world. You pay more for a citizen though.

The stars did well for me. So if you find one that will do what you want and will get the job done, no worries. Guide bushings are really the biggest problem on a swiss machine. They wear out but you can replace them yourself. I found once I got the cross ref number I could buy them for half price at Detroit ball bearing.

[tobyaxis]

Originally Posted by kingfisher Guide bushings are really the biggest problem on a swiss machine. They wear out but you can replace them yourself. I found once I got the cross ref number I could buy them for half price at Detroit ball bearing.

Are you using the Carbide Lined Guide Bushings ???? If so they shouldn't be wearing out. Maybe your making them too tight. Are you using Precision Ground Bar or common extrusion stock???

[cogsman1]

Keep in mind that a USED "Cadillac" with good support is a WAY better deal than a new " Brand X " that has no local help with all the "usual" problems.
Don't let all the pretty pictures fool you! Talk to a current user and make an educated choice!

[kingfisher]

Originally Posted by tobyaxis Are you using the Carbide Lined Guide Bushings ???? If so they shouldn't be wearing out. Maybe your making them too tight. Are you using Precision Ground Bar or common extrusion stock???

Sorry, it was late when I posted. I meant the guide bushing bearings. Yes, I did run carbide lined bushing, if not they would wear out. If you tighten the guide bushing to tight then stock will not move through it. There is a knack to setting it just right. Precision stock is the way to go. You can't always do that on some jobs though.

Citizen is the top machine in the Swiss business. My problem was I did not have the dollars to buy one when I started my shop. The stars were fine for me. I started with a STM-38 and a JNC-25. I bought one of the very first Hardinge swiss machines in the area. Not sure how that ended up since I sold out and went in another direction. The year or so I had it there was no problems.