CNCzone.com-The Largest Machinist Community on the net!



Home Page Mark Forums Read Today's Posts My Replies Classifieds Reviews Photo Gallery Web Links Share Files Advertise With Us Ad List
Go Back   CNCzone.com-The Largest Machinist Community on the net! > MetalWorking Machines > CNC Swiss Screw Machines


CNC Swiss Screw Machines Discuss CNC Swiss Screw Machines here.


This forum is sponsored by:

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Ban this user!
Old 04-27-2010, 05:29 PM
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: US
Posts: 71
chet470 is on a distinguished road
L20 programming

To all the seasoned citizen programmers out there....I've been working with STARS for 15 years and I'm considering moving to a shop that has mainly citizen L20's.
I've worked with citizens in the past but it has been quite a few years. Could someone provided me with a complete part program for a citizen L20 with explanation of $1 $2 $3 and the wait codes etc...
Also does citizen still set workpiece variables at the end of the program? If so could you provide an explanation of these.
I am mostly interested in the format of the program. Also being that citizens machine from the opposite direction does that mean that circular inter. is reversed? If so is tool nose radius compensation reversed also?
If its easier to do so you could email me. I know this is a lot to ask so thank you in advance.
Reply With Quote

  #2   Ban this user!
Old 04-28-2010, 08:59 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 84
glenthemann is on a distinguished road

Well, I'm not that seasoned and I cant provide you with any template as I have none but I can answer some of your questions.

$1, $2, $3 etc are simply your head1 head2 etc, only you cannot run the heads separately. For wait codes either a mode change or an exclamation !L1, the L1 just being a label, must be called in both $1 and $2, its the same as your M200+ codes (there are actually a few ways to use the exclamation and iirc you can simply use !). The L20s are programmed in both the G800 mode codes and newer G600 codes which I know better to be honest. G610 is single $ machining with the gang tools, G620 is simultaneous ID/OD working with the back spindle z axis superimposed onto the main z axis, G630 is for simultaneous work on the front and on the back, G640 isnt really used and is for a double ended front drilling holder if i recall. G650 is your pick off mode and G600 cancels your modes and is pretty much the same as G610. You must have the mode calls in each $, or head if you will.

The variables at the end you refer to are $0, or the machining data in a program you will see downloaded from the machine. In the machining data you set things such as the bar diameter, the positioning point (how far above the material to index to rapidly as the tool is called usually .05'), cut off feed rate and speed, part length (this sets your starting position). Coming from a star which I am just learning, the part length which sets the z axis start position is set with #2601 in the program, but with a citizen you tell the machine the part length, and after you manually cut off the bar and move to start position then you can start your program - the machine automatically calculates the distance from the guide bushing to start from. In your program at the end you just move the axis back the required length, thats one difference between the two.

Citizens machine from the opposite direction but the cutting face of the tools face you as you are looking into the machine, so the direction of G2/G3 is still the same, just imagine you are standing on the other side of your star. I personally cannot 100% tell you if tool nose rad comp is any different as I havnt used it much in my time yet.

The rest is just learning the M and G code differences. One star/citizen difference is that you must specify which spindle you wish to turn on, ie S1=2000 M3; S2=2000 M23;. S2=2000 M3 would not start the back spindle, M23/24/25 is for/rev/off respectively for the sub. You can command the sub spindle from $1 though in this manner.

As I said before you cannot run each heads program independently as you can on a star since it is loaded as one, but there is a "last part program" section at the end of a program that allows the sub spindle to do its work if last part is selected and the machine is in single cycle. At the end of every citizen program youll see the code

G999;
;
N999;
M2;
M99;

In $2 inbetween G999 and N999 you either use a goto and have it go to the top of $2 to finish the part in the sub spindle, or you just copy all the code about the G999 into the space between (which isnt smart really). This is how you can finish a part that is in the sub spindle without running the main.

Another major difference is the use of G50Z instead of G120 to set absolute Z zero. Then you use G50W to shift the z zero for your tooling rather than in tool geometry and the axis specificed adjusts accordingly. As far as ive read so far you cannot command a G50 shift when G120 is set on a star, and it is not used in the star programming on our machine which I am very new to, so forgive me if Ive made some errors.

I cant really think of any more glaring differences, ive noticed that a lot of people program in a bunch of different ways though so I hope I helped a bit,

Cheers'
Reply With Quote

  #3   Ban this user!
Old 04-29-2010, 11:53 AM
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 237
cogsman1 is on a distinguished road

Here is a labeled program to view. see attached file.
Attached Files
File Type: txt O75labeled.txt‎ (6.9 KB, 186 views)
Reply With Quote

  #4   Ban this user!
Old 04-29-2010, 06:47 PM
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: US
Posts: 71
chet470 is on a distinguished road
Thanks

Good information, I appreciate it
Reply With Quote

  #5   Ban this user!
Old 04-30-2010, 07:20 AM
MikeMc's Avatar  
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 78
MikeMc is on a distinguished road

Originally Posted by cogsman1 View Post
Here is a labeled program to view. see attached file.
I find it strange that you do M140/M141 at every ID tool call. I leave the ram forward and use all the ID tools before sending it home.
__________________
www.atmswiss.com
Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
  #6   Ban this user!
Old 04-30-2010, 11:35 AM
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 237
cogsman1 is on a distinguished road

I agree! That was done due to a new operator not setting tools very well and doing damage when the index happened. The way you see makes the slide move all the way home , index and then come back in. That was a special request, I didn't realize that was the one I selected to upload.
Reply With Quote

  #7   Ban this user!
Old 04-30-2010, 05:36 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 84
glenthemann is on a distinguished road

Originally Posted by cogsman1 View Post
I agree! That was done due to a new operator not setting tools very well and doing damage when the index happened. The way you see makes the slide move all the way home , index and then come back in. That was a special request, I didn't realize that was the one I selected to upload.
Wouldnt it have been much faster to just set the tools correctly?.. and especially over a production run
Reply With Quote

  #8   Ban this user!
Old 05-01-2010, 06:57 AM
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 237
cogsman1 is on a distinguished road

Well after he first had the problem he was very worried and afraid of the machine so I added this. The added cycle time was only 2 seconds total, so it made no difference anyway. This was the only time it was needed, by the time this job was done he was much more comfortable with the machine. I got better production once he was more relaxed so it was woth it.
Reply With Quote

  #9   Ban this user!
Old 05-01-2010, 01:31 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 84
glenthemann is on a distinguished road

Originally Posted by cogsman1 View Post
Well after he first had the problem he was very worried and afraid of the machine so I added this. The added cycle time was only 2 seconds total, so it made no difference anyway. This was the only time it was needed, by the time this job was done he was much more comfortable with the machine. I got better production once he was more relaxed so it was woth it.
Makes sense, the machines can surely give you a false sense of security sometimes. Just when you think youre fully comfortable..WHOOOMP, heh. Though to me 2 seconds to me is still a lot of time, I always try to reduce moves as much as I can. Depending on the size of the production run you can save up to a day or twos run time, which allows wiggle room for all the stupid little jobs the higher ups want you to switch a machine over for a run of 100 parts

Though of course if you spend 2 days figuring out how to do that 2 second time savings then youre no farther ahead anyway.
Reply With Quote

Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need Help!- CNC Programming bri008 WoodWorking 24 08-04-2009 07:41 AM
CAM programming mallinathan Diemaking and Diecutting 0 10-19-2008 12:08 AM
CNC Programming mikemill General Metal Working Machines 5 12-30-2007 02:05 AM
CNC Programming qman General CAM Discussion 7 10-16-2007 01:34 PM
Programming chakaloso Haas Mills 11 03-07-2007 04:34 PM




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:52 AM.





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO
Template-Modifications by TMS

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361