Small Workshop CNC

[AlG]

Im completely new to computer controlled machines in general and im looking to buying a plasma, laser or water jet machine for a small workshop that will be producing parts for a low production off road vehicle. The table size would be ideally 5ft x 10ft.
The plasma seems the most popular, the laser being quite expensive as is the waterjet.
My preference would be the waterjet, but my budget is no more than 15-20k GBP or 30-40k USD. ( maybe more if this is unrealistic )
If I were to go for a cnc machine, From what ive read so far, there is 3 main parts to purchase.
The CNC controller, the table & gantry and the actual cutting machine,
Is this correct ?
So what I would like to know is :-

1/ Is waterjets outwith my budget ?
2/ Can someone explain briefly why I would choose plasma over laser ?
3/ Would I be best buying the 3 seperate components or a "turnkey" machine ?
4/ What would be a good quality "turnkey" machine to buy for my purpose ?
5/ In a plasma machine, can a portable plasma cutter be hooked up to a cnc machine?
6/ is the waterjet table & gantry the same as you would use for a plasma ?

Look forward to any help, My searches dont seem to bring up much info.

Alan

[DSL PWR]

1. possibly used
2. plasma is WAY cheaper, laser uses "laser grade plate", for most stuff plasma is good enough.
3. If you are handy you can build the whole system, with an open control (mach3) for less (including labor) than most turnkeys.
4. Don't know, I quit looking and built my own plasma table.
5. Yes a portable can be hooked up, one can use a hand torch, but a dedicated machine torch is much better. Most "consumer" (sub 100amp) plasma cutters have a torch and/or lead set that can be changed in minutes.
6. NO! These are 2 totally different beasts

[AlG]

Thanks, so with the mach 3 software you dont need a seperate controller on the machine ?
I wouldnt feel confident enough to build a plasma table yet as ive never even seen one.
Is the torchmate a quality machine ?
Ive read about a 3 axis machine, what is this ? to me a 2 axis would seem all you would need.
PS, treat me as thick and dont pressume I know cnc lingo

[Torchhead]

You are at a disadvantage because of where you live. We and others offer turn key plasma controls complete with all electronics, cables and motors but even if you could get it there your government would not let you have it. They don't want you to hurt yourself or sully the environment so all of the regulations make it impossible for you to buy a lot of the lower cost solutions (or even full tables since most do not comply with the safety regulations or RHoS directives.

TOM CAUDLE
www.CandCNC.com

[AlG]

Our government wouldnt stop anything like this coming into the country, Also I cant see why US machines wouldnt comply with UK health & safety. regulations. These regulations only come in to play if an employee is using the machine & it would only mean fitting gaurds etc. Its really no big deal.

Alan

[DSL PWR]

Originally Posted by AlG Our government wouldnt stop anything like this coming into the country, Also I cant see why US machines wouldnt comply with UK health & safety. regulations. These regulations only come in to play if an employee is using the machine & it would only mean fitting gaurds etc. Its really no big deal. Alan

LOL, it is a big deal, and Tom would know. A prime example of how the EU has made it's mark is with the Haas TM mills. Any of the open machines can't have the toolchanger, because they don't meet some standard in the EU. Most electronics going into the EU now have to be RHoS. Most (if not all) boards in the hobby/light industrial class don't meet that standard. You might be able to sneak a board or two in under the radar, but it would be risky. You also need to remember that most of UK's import regs have been beefed up under the EU.

[Geof]

AIG

Look into applicable regulations for personally importing either components or complete machines.

Torchhead and DSL PWR are almost certainly correct when it comes to a company either setting up an overseas subsidiary which is the Haas case or when a company imports something for resale, but it is possible some of the restrictions would not apply for a personal importation.

[bekx]

With this budget u can either buy a complete sistem or make yourself a similar or even better machine, but building your own will take a lot more time and nobody guarantees u will get a good one.

I started building mine almost 8 months ago and it's not ready yet (don't get scared ,actual time spent working on the table is less then 1 month), i could be making money right now if i went with torchmate.

Mach3 is a great program but u will also need a controller to drive your motors.

The third axis is for controling the torch hight , u can cut thicker material without it but u get better results with a 3rd axis and auto hight controller (thc)

[AlG]

Thanks eveyone for advice.
Yes im sure Torchhead knows what hes talking about, apologies for giving the impression I didnt listen.
Yes, this RoHS came in here Jan 2007, Ive never heard of it to be honest untill last night.
I have had experience with ( looking into ) importing a whole vehicle from Russia ( outside EU also ) with the view to sell it here in the UK, so ive had dealings with CE conformity and various machinery directives etc.
The costs were around $10k and modifications to product were involved.
You can however import a non compliance product for personal use if you dont intend to distribute and sell.
this is where I got my facts wrong, It is not allowed to import a non compliance RoHS product into, not just the UK but any EU state.
However, There is a lot of grey areas and uncertainty in the RoHS directives, not alot of enforcement action has been taken yet because of this I think.

One thing that comes to mind is, ( hypothetically speaking ) if I were to become a importer of said plasma tables, I would get a letter from the producer of the product saying that he has taken all reasonable due care and attention when manufacturing his product to comply with RoHS directives and the first one is a sample to the importer. Im sure the pakage would never even be looked at by customs though.
If I were to sell & distribute them I would need to perform CE conformity and get tests done for "harmfull substances" on the machine. The test proceedure is very unclear. every part is supposed to be tested...how is that possible ?? when a resister may contain 4 different materials ??
I dont know how serious this whole thing is in actual reality, I cant believe the bucket loads of chinese c**p that enter this country comply.

Alan