Who has the best turnkey plasma table?

[carlquib]

I have a bunch of parts to burn and was thinking this would be a great excuse to get a plasma/oxy cnc machine. Who makes the best bang for the buck cnc plasma table. There could be some assembly involved but I don't have time to build one from the ground up. I was going to just make guides again and do it by hand but then I started thinking about what a great excuse I have to get a new toy, er tool. I have looked at the torchmate system, plasmacam, and several others but don't know enough about the different systems to intelligently pick a machine.

-brian

[cam1]

Hi:
If you have 40K, check out Fastcut CNC. They make a really great turnkey system.
They also make a version where you supply the table structure.

regards

[millman52]

Boy that's a Question that's sure to get lots of debate. I guess part of it depends on your budget. How large a machine do you want/need? I built my own 5' X 10' & it is a time consuming drawn out process.

Depending on how quickly you need it running. Lead time from order date to delivery could be an issue also.

The names you hear repeatedly on here & other places are, in no particular order, DynaCNC, Dynatorch, Torchmate & Plasmacam. There are others also, I am mainly holding to the more affordable solutions.

I have NO HANDS ON KNOWLEDGE OR USE OF ANY OF THEM. These are merely observations from reading extensively on CNC Zone & othe places.

If I am not mistaken Plasmacam is only avalible in a 4 X 4 & offer indexing as a solution for cutting longer than 4' lengths. Don't know how well that works but seems bothersome to me.

If you read most of the posts about these 4 machines you will find mostly praise about them & the ocasional "I've had major trouble" post.

I first began to look at owning a "burning center" about 3-4 years ago. Torchmate was the first I ever entertained the idea of owning. They seem to have something for just about every budget & stage of completion. By the time my real need for a table came about. There was other manufacturers & many more people building their own. & more suppliers out there to easily buy the components. Right down to complete, pre wired, pre packaged, electronics kits. Since there was always something about any of the "ready to run" tables I didn't like. I decided to build my own.

You will have to decide, no matter what you buy. Stepper system or servo system. Some manufacturers are "closed systems" (pretty much have to deal with them for most or all replacement parts, software etc.) Others are built from components available from many diferent sources.

It really all boils down to what is right for you.....

For my own personal choices/opinions:

(1) Stepper drive system. Just seemed to be a simpler electronics system that I might be able to troubleshoot & keep running on my own.

(2) Open system: Replacement parts issue.

(3) Precision, ease of alignment & keeping it that way.

(4) Ease of loading full sheets of stock & unloading cut parts & scrap. In other words a dropped front rail type table.

(5) Ease of switching between Plasma & Oxy/Fuel

(6) Durability of table framework, I burn steel regularly to 1" thickness with the need to cut 4" if necessary. Main reason for building my own.

(7) Will it stand up to daily use & allowing employees to use.

Again these are just opinions/reasons I chose to build my own. Also I knew if I built it myself, I could troubleshoot & fix most any part of it without having to call a repairman.

With any choice there will be a learning curve on using the software to make the table cut what you want.

Neil.

[carlquib]

Thanks millman52, lead time is an issue I have to have all the parts burned and assembled by the first of April. It isn't a huge run, only a couple hundred sets of assemblies. I still haven't decided if I will use templates or maybe farm it out to a shop that I have used in the past. My budget is only about $5000, I might be able to push that but I might not. If I don't get something done I will have to just start building a table. I have looked at plasma cam, torchmate, and several others. I haven't found any prices for plasmacam machines so I will have to call to get a quote. Can plasmacam run an oxy/acetylene machine torch?

-brian

[millman52]

Brian,

I'm not sure as I didn't research them very far simply because a PlasmaCam isn't physically large enough for my needs. I'd think they would have some sort of means to mount Oxy/Fuel though. If you call them I'm pretty sure they have a demo CD they will send out to you with all the other propaganda on the table. I watched the CD a while back. They sure do make that little machine look impressive. I'm sure there's lots of creative editing though.

Again I'm not knocking PlasmaCam. Anyones advertisements is going to paint the best picture of themselves. Hopefully there will be some other table users post here for you.

I'd say you'd really be pushing it to be able to run by the first of April. Unless someone has one ready to ship immediately. I really don't think you could even assemble a kit (if you have to build a table frame) & have it cutting in that length of time. That is unless you can devote full time to it once you take delivery.

Just from what I have read here Torchmate seems to have the best time frame from order to delivery. Best advice I could give you here is call all the different tables sales department & pin them down to a time frame.

There is always a couple companys on Ebay offering tables too. might get one quick that way.

[Med-Pac]

We've been running the torchmate table witha 1000 hypertherm for 3-4 years. No complaints, gives us high quality parts with very good tolerances.

Mike

[Torchhead]

Originally Posted by carlquib Thanks millman52, lead time is an issue I have to have all the parts burned and assembled by the first of April. It isn't a huge run, only a couple hundred sets of assemblies. I still haven't decided if I will use templates or maybe farm it out to a shop that I have used in the past. My budget is only about $5000, I might be able to push that but I might not. If I don't get something done I will have to just start building a table. I have looked at plasma cam, torchmate, and several others. I haven't found any prices for plasmacam machines so I will have to call to get a quote. Can plasmacam run an oxy/acetylene machine torch? -brian

You won't get any machine (new) for 5,000. You will be lucky to get out for 10,000 for a small 4 X 4. Heck most standalone THC solutions are over half your budget! Just the PlasmaCAM software is $3500.00

Take a look at www.plasmaroute.com. He has a lower end table for about $8,000. Even just gantry kits will push you past the $5000 budget.

With your time frame you are ripe to be taken advantage of.....I think I would consider farming out the upcoming job and use some of the profit to up your budget. If you do the entire mechanical build yourself you can probably get a 4 X 8 with good electronics for about 7500.00 in parts and material but you will have 100+ hrs of time in it before it ever makes you a penny. If you can scrounge and be patient (like wait for months sometimes) you can cut raw costs to lower numbers.

TOM CAUDLE
www.CandCNC.com

[millman52]

Originally Posted by Torchhead You won't get any machine (new) for 5,000. You will be lucky to get out for 10,000 for a small 4 X 4. Heck most standalone THC solutions are over half your budget! Just the PlasmaCAM software is $3500.00 Take a look at www.plasmaroute.com. He has a lower end table for about $8,000. Even just gantry kits will push you past the $5000 budget. With your time frame you are ripe to be taken advantage of.....I think I would consider farming out the upcoming job and use some of the profit to up your budget. If you do the entire mechanical build yourself you can probably get a 4 X 8 with good electronics for about 7500.00 in parts and material but you will have 100+ hrs of time in it before it ever makes you a penny. If you can scrounge and be patient (like wait for months sometimes) you can cut raw costs to lower numbers. TOM CAUDLE www.CandCNC.com

Hey Tom those controls look fairly familiar. I have some that look exactly like them & are working without fault . Strange thing though, They have a different name on them.

Brian, Tom is giving you excellent advice. I'm not trying to sway you one way or another. (buy or build).

I managed to get a 5 X 10 going for around $5500.00, That has top notch controls. I did spend about 3 months gathering up items from Ebay & from other members on the Zone.

I am running Ox/Fuel however & havent dropped the $2500.00 for the plasma machine I really want. So that will Drive my cost to 7500-8000 for a dual use machine without having to change out torches. Plasma & Ox/Fuel will remain mounted to the gantry at all times.

With the size & all the features I built into my table a comprable "ready built" would most likely be in the 16000.00 - 18000.00 range. so still at about 1/2 price.

I spent a good bit more than average on my mechanical construction. I sometimes need to cut a chunk of 4". My table is heavy enough to jerk out the slats, add ramps & use it as a grease rack for my 4 X 4

[Torchhead]

Originally Posted by millman52 Hey Tom those controls look fairly familiar. I have some that look exactly like them & are working without fault . Strange thing though, They have a different name on them.

The names have been changed to protect the innocent!

A general "finger-in-the-wind" number to use is that you can build a comparable table for about 1/2 the cost but you give up your labor and time sourcing parts. The more you buy pre-assembled the further from 1/2 price you vary.

I get about 3 - 4 calls per day from guys that are in various stages of designing/building a table (plasma or router or combo). I can tell that there is a LOT of confusion and almost too many choices and options.

One of the most asked questions is about the motor gearing. The most used approach is rack and pinion. Given that the pinion gear translates rotary motion into linear motion and it's based on PI times the pitch diameter of the pinion, in most circumstances you get a STEP UP in speed and a resulting decrease in torque and resolution. In short you have speed you can't use and lower torque/acceleration with poor resolution (on steppers).

For that and other reasons we suggest stepper based R & P tables have a minimum of 3:1 belt reduction between the motor and pinion and that Servos have at least 5:1 or higher for the same pinion size

Gear reduction units are great if you can afford them but it's pretty easy to fashion a bracket that holds the pinion gear, holds the motor and allows the motor to better mesh with the rack decreasing backlash.

TOM CAUDLE
www.CandCNC.com

[Weldtutor]

Originally Posted by millman52 My table is heavy enough to jerk out the slats, add ramps & use it as a grease rack for my 4 X 4

Do you have a photo of that when you CNC (change 'n clean) the oil?

Sorry Carlquib, I couldn't resist.
Millman52's table is very well built!

[carlquib]

I decided that I am going to farm this job out. I will have to get busy on construction, I have a couple of these types of jobs that seem to pop up every year. The table is easy just a straight forward fab project, but I don't have any electronics experience so will have to spend more time here to figure out the electronics part. I appreciate all the help.

-brian

[millman52]

Originally Posted by carlquib I decided that I am going to farm this job out. I will have to get busy on construction, I have a couple of these types of jobs that seem to pop up every year. The table is easy just a straight forward fab project, but I don't have any electronics experience so will have to spend more time here to figure out the electronics part. I appreciate all the help. -brian

If you should decide to piece your own electronics together as opposed to sourcing a pretty much plug & play kit from: www.CandCNC.com here is an education course that will help guide you through a basic PC/CNC hook up via a parallel port. http://cgi.ebay.com/CNC-STEPPER-MOTO....m153.l1262The hardware in this kit will be useless to you in building a plasma table but the knowledge is probably priceless for 80.00 They also have the manuals alone for under 40.00