My awful story

[Dale Heart]

Hello,

This is a bit long:

I’ve read these forums for a while and used to frequent it many moons ago when I was thinking about a small plasma setup as a hobby. Since that time, I’ve studied plasma/oxy-fuel combinations with various additional tools such as beveling, spot drilling, drilling, tapping, scribing and paint marking for work. I have approached a number of the large manufactures (e.g. ESAB etc) and they all have a common theme – very high price for very little real performance. It’s all marketing… not one company can answer my questions about programming, accuracy, how their machine works, components, spare parts etc without floundering or out right lying. It’s really strange that someone can ask for $400k to $600k for a machine they barely understand… and what’s worse… they don’t seem to have the backup to answer those questions. It’s really annoying, though it certainly shouldn’t reflect on the quality of their machines.

The main reason I have approached these large companies is for backup… but when I see and hear stories of some of these machines waiting months for spare parts, impossible to program, tooling doesn’t work or frequently breaks etc I wonder if any price asked is worth the trouble.

I’m in my final last-ditch effort to try and get a machine that does what we want and we have had to turn to China. So far, things look good but like always, good now is not good next week.

If everything fails, I’m going to have to deign and build the machine. I don’t really have a problem with the mechanical/structural side of things, though I am very week in control systems and software. There are people that I assume can help me with that though none of them have ever done something like this.

I sort of want to begin the process of at least gathering companies that can provide components, controls, software tooling etc incase I can’t get what I want from China and I have to resort to building the machine. So I’ve come here for advice, abuse and gossip.

[Torchhead]

CHINA! What kind of support/training/spare parts/on-line support/phone support do you think you are going to get from China? You'll be lucky if you can even read their 3 page manual let alone comprehend their software.

For 400K you can buy 10 US made middle tier machines and have enough left over to pay them to come in and set them all up and train 10 of your employees for a week!!

What specs do you guys need? "never done something like this"?? Dig around a little.

I design and build electronics for CNC that includes Torch Height Controls. I run a steel cutting business and I support my systems.

If you want to cut steel up to 1" thick or thinner and need advice on plasma machines, electronics, software, motors, linear components, procedures or whatever, dig the phone number off the website and call !!

Tom Caudle
www.CandCNC.com

[Dale Heart]

$400k are the sort of offers we were getting from local reps and in my opinion is a very high figure for four tons of steel, some leads and a power supply etc etc

The China option includes a lot of American and European/Japanese components. They would really be acting as a systems integrator. So, backup like that is okay as all those companies have reps here.

[Apples]

I guess it all comes down to what you want to do.

No offence to the smaller companies making tables, I think they are great. But you cant really imagine someone like Caterpillar, Hitachi, and Mitsubishi heavy industries using the smaller made machines, for 24hr 7 day a week production.

But if you yourself only have an average sized workshop, or should I say an average sized requirement for cut parts. Then maybe a cheaper cnc machine will suffice.

But, if all the big players in the steel fabrication industry are spending big big bucks on cutting machines you have to ask the question, why? Is it simply just marketing?



I say you should have a go an make a machine yourself, if you have the cash it will not be a problem. I think that most people on this forum, myself included, would be able to make cnc machines that are absolutly superb. I think that at the end of the day it all comes down to money???


Just my thoughts.
Apples
Australia

[Genguy]

Which Esabna machine are you looking at?
For a machine of that size with the options you require, $400K might not be too far off the mark. Are they including overseas shipping to Asia and technicians to setup and commission the machine and perform operator training in that quote?

Building a machine of that size and outfitting it with software that has beveling, spot drilling, drilling, tapping, scribing and paint marking functions on one movable gantry is a pretty big task.

[Switcher]

Originally Posted by Apples I guess it all comes down to what you want to do. No offence to the smaller companies making tables, I think they are great. But you cant really imagine someone like Caterpillar, Hitachi, and Mitsubishi heavy industries using the smaller made machines, for 24hr 7 day a week production. But if you yourself only have an average sized workshop, or should I say an average sized requirement for cut parts. Then maybe a cheaper cnc machine will suffice. But, if all the big players in the steel fabrication industry are spending big big bucks on cutting machines you have to ask the question, why? Is it simply just marketing? I say you should have a go an make a machine yourself, if you have the cash it will not be a problem. I think that most people on this forum, myself included, would be able to make cnc machines that are absolutly superb. I think that at the end of the day it all comes down to money??? Just my thoughts. Apples Australia

The companies that buy the large cnc machines, don't build cnc machines, because thats not what they do. They sell products that cnc machines help build.




.

[Switcher]

Originally Posted by Torchhead CHINA! What kind of support/training/spare parts/on-line support/phone support do you think you are going to get from China? You'll be lucky if you can even read their 3 page manual let alone comprehend their software. For 400K you can buy 10 US made middle tier machines and have enough left over to pay them to come in and set them all up and train 10 of your employees for a week!! What specs do you guys need? "never done something like this"?? Dig around a little. I design and build electronics for CNC that includes Torch Height Controls. I run a steel cutting business and I support my systems. If you want to cut steel up to 1" thick or thinner and need advice on plasma machines, electronics, software, motors, linear components, procedures or whatever, dig the phone number off the website and call !! Tom Caudle www.CandCNC.com

The support might be better than what you or I would get, Dale Heart loaction says Asia.



.

[Dale Heart]

Originally Posted by Apples I guess it all comes down to what you want to do. No offence to the smaller companies making tables, I think they are great. But you cant really imagine someone like Caterpillar, Hitachi, and Mitsubishi heavy industries using the smaller made machines, for 24hr 7 day a week production. But if you yourself only have an average sized workshop, or should I say an average sized requirement for cut parts. Then maybe a cheaper cnc machine will suffice. But, if all the big players in the steel fabrication industry are spending big big bucks on cutting machines you have to ask the question, why? Is it simply just marketing? I say you should have a go an make a machine yourself, if you have the cash it will not be a problem. I think that most people on this forum, myself included, would be able to make cnc machines that are absolutly superb. I think that at the end of the day it all comes down to money??? Just my thoughts. Apples Australia

I'm aware of some of the experiences all those mentioned companies have had with profile cutting. That's to say, they have all been very unlucky at some moments in time with the money they spent to what they got. They do work things out though, by not continuing to buy certain brand machines.

It comes down to value for money and hence the expected return from that. I’ll give you a great real life example: if I buy a machine and I have it down for six months because I'm waiting on spare parts or the bevel is impossible to get right… the fact the supplier company is ‘large’ doesn’t help me. That is my concern… sales people tell me how fantastic their stuff is and when I do my own running around I find companies that curse their machine for lack of performance and backup.

This is getting a bit off topic. I really just want some companies that provide bits and pieces if it comes to that.

[linatrol god]

First off, where are you located, there are machine building companies big and small all around the world. I can rhyme off a number of companies that I do business with on a daily basis that would build you a kick ass machine with complete training and service for less that 100K all located right here in North America. So, first off, as I asked, where ya located? Then maybe myself or someone else can steer you in the right direction.

[Dale Heart]

Originally Posted by linatrol god First off, where are you located, there are machine building companies big and small all around the world. I can rhyme off a number of companies that I do business with on a daily basis that would build you a kick ass machine with complete training and service for less that 100K all located right here in North America. So, first off, as I asked, where ya located? Then maybe myself or someone else can steer you in the right direction.

The company I work for, generally, doesn't deal with American companies... at least directly.

[steesoftware12]

Hi
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[Pure-Powder]

Well at least the thread title is correct, (This Is an awful Story)pretty much pointless, if you or your compamy has 400 large to spend and can't find a Cutting setup , you wouldn't be in business long...I see in your post it is a company you work for... are you there purchasing agent or the Floor sweeper... also you say you are week in control systems and software, those are the most important part of any system, how could you possibly build such a high end machine! I could get my 2nd year apprentice to weld up a table thats the easy part!!!!