5 axis or 4 axis, which one do I need?

[thinkingcnc]

I have a dilema. I am currently thinking of purchasing a solid wood cnc machine from SCM. I manufacture windows, doors and stairs. I know the 4 axis machine will do everything I do at the moment on my traditional machines but I'm told a lot of people are buying the 5-axis machine so they are 'future proof'. The only use I can think of for a 5-axis machine is the machining of curved handrail which I have never been asked for, although I have never had the capability to offer it. As for the future uses of 5 axis machines, I do not have a clue what they might be used for. If I go for a 4 axis machine I will definitely be burning bridges and I do not want to live in regret. The 4 axis will cost 150K and the 5 axis will cost 175k. There is all the extra training in 5 axis to consider as well. Can anyone help me in my decision of 4 or 5 axis?

[jalessi]

Hi,

The 5 axis machine is the only way to go.

The cost of the extra axis amortized over the life of the machine is tiny compared to the added versatility and the time you will save.

Checkout as many of the video's on You Tube as you can find on the 5 axis machine, you will see why it will pay off.

YouTube - SCM Record Tecno_Mod_2004

YouTube - SCM Record Tecno_Mod_2004

Its easy to search You Tube for SCM demo's.

A trip to Duluth, Georgia may also be worth while.

Welcome to the Zone,

Jeff...

[mc-motorsports]

Don't forget the cost of upgrading the CAM software, if you also need. IMO, you can make a lot of money with one of those, and it looks like a very nice machine, especially for the price. But it's going to be much easier to make mistakes and machine crashes will be more expensive. I ran 5 axis tables for a couple of years, didn't take much and the gears inside would bust. I wouldn't guess it would take much to tear up the head on that machine either.

That's just my experience and opinions. But I don't think anyone will argue that you need to stay 1 up on your competition. And a 15% price difference compared to what you'll be able to do and possibly increase the efficiency of what you do now isn't a bad idea.

[thinkingcnc]

Thanks Jalessi and mc-motorsports.

Jalessi: yes, the machine in your video is called the 'Techno' and I have been quoted £220k for it. The price of the scm 5 axis 'Prisma' is 190K and is a single head. I have the dilema of choosing between two heads or one. Is two heads worth the extra £30K?

mc-motorsports: I haven't got a clue how easy it is to damage the machine, I was hoping that the software would prevent this to a large extent. You talk about gears, but I didn't think there were gears with the 5-axis. This is one of the reasons I was having a 5 axis. With a 4 axis machine the gears in the aggregates wear out and are limited in speed or so I have been told. Are you talking about a 5-axis like the one in the Video from Jalessi?

[mc-motorsports]

The 5th axis that used to break gears was like the one pictured, sorta the same, didn't have a servo hanging off the end. The one pictured is a fadal, just hijacked a picture off google. It was many years ago, I worked for a piston manufacture. Wouldn't take much and the thing would just flop over - dead! The matience shop would repair them in house, but it was time consuming and expensive.

Just a heads up. Some equiptment is more delicate than others, just something to concider. I remember the old Mori's, those things were almost indestructable. Granted it was only a 3 axis mill, I saw a couple of good crashes! Re-do the set-up and back to cutting chips. But if you were to smack a 5 axis head against a fixture, I would expect a decent bill from the service tech.

MC

[NC Cams]

THe hard core NASCAR enginer buildser who port their own cyl heads all do so on big 5 axis machiens. HOts of HAAS stuff down south.

They literally bot a hea down and can do lights out CNC head proting, as in ports, runners, chambers and even blocks. They run pattesn to lighten and clearance blocks for cranks roda dn god knows what else. They also do trick pitson domes and other scalloping/lighteneing processe.

The machine will cut a block in halfe if that's what the tool path says. YOu tell it to go there and it will GO there. CRUNCH. The guy who comes up with a language what will make a machine 'crash proof" wiill be the richest man in the world.

[mahrous]

We are woodworkers as well. We bought all our machines from SCM (except one CNC router from Balestrini). Only in February we got our Routech Chronos 5122 from SCM for only 5k more than the price you wrote for the 5axis.

The 175k is seriously overpriced for an SCM Record (especially in Sterlings. the price i tell you for Routech is in Euros) and the Routech is far more superior to anything SCM will get out of Rimini.

Definitely 5-axis is the way to go. No question about that.
It is more complex. The machine is more difficult to maintain and will have a higher running cost for all sorts of reasons. Crashing the machine is easy to avoid with experience. I had some rough crashes over the years but the machines still run quite good. Licom's AlphaCAM V8 is gonna be released with machine modeling simulation that can help you detect collisions. But generally speaking, only you (or the operator) can prevent the collisions. Never trust an untested NC code.
SCM is a world-wide brand ... they are no cheap machines but mind you ... there are less commercial companies out there that can offer you better money-value to their machines.

You can check out www.balestrini.com (as a matter of fact, the owner of the company is visiting our factory today), www.cosmec.com, bacci.com, pade.com, cms.it (perhaps the best CNC makers in the world), www.biesse.com (the company that sells more machines than any other company worldwide), www.andi.com (the famous Anderson/Rye of England) and so on. You will find a large range of 5-axis machines there with different Z-strokes and movement mechanics.

[mahrous]

For upgrading your CAM software. AlphaCAM is the way to go. *whispers* you can find a torrent for an earlier version of AlphaCAM (V3 and V7 I believe are out there for free )
The most important thing is to acquire a post-processor along with your machine for the CAM software. This is crucial because without that, you can't make the best out of your machine.