Biesse and Vcarve (and a bit of MACH3)

[Matt Ribble]

Hi all

So here's my situation. I just got hired at a cabinet shop who has a Biesse machine (Rover B) and I am at a complete loss. It programs "weird" compared to fanuc experience, the biessworks is clunky and sort of objectionable and it's all in Italian.

After my first day today I wanted DESPERATELY to go back to using Vcarve which I had learned during my schooling. Same with mach 3. My employer is EAGER for me to start producing quality and quantity very, very soon.

My questions are pretty straight forward:

How solid is Vcarve Pro with the biesse controller? Assuming I get the post-processor is there anything funny? Any issues?

What would I have to do (if at all possible) to convert the controller to a fanuc/mach3 style controller? I know these controllers. I like these controllers. I understand the gcode...This would skyrocket my productivity rather than learning an entirely new system/how to trouble shoot it/etc.

Can anyone point me as some Biesse related learning resources?

And finally : What should I know to be competent on this machine? Its much higher level than the mach3/general table I used at school and feels completely alien.


Thanks in advance.

[PEU]

so your plan is to tell your new employer that you don't know how to use the machine and embark him in a retrofit of uncertain success and cost, so you can make it work as you like?

You should be searching for new job...

Good luck!

[ger21]

I've worked with big Italian machines for the last 15 years (not Biesse, though), so have some experience in this area.
Most Italian machines like that use their own proprietary controls. If you wanted to convert it to another control, I'd guess it would take at least a month or two, would cost at least $20,000, and would be as easy to use as the control you have now. Those are very complicated machines, with tons of electonics, loads of safety switches, and a lot of different tools to control.

The key to utilizing these machines is the right software. Unfortunately, I've found that a lot of people that spend $100K on a machine like this, doesn't want to pay the $15K-$20K on the required software.

Assuming you're cutting cabinet parts (or machining pre-cut parts), creating code for these machines should be almost fully automatic. The key is in the creation of the .dxf files. The good cabinet packages will create .dxf files with all the required machining info in the .dxf, usually in the layer names. The CAM software should read the .dxf's and output the code with NO user intervention at all.

If your not doing cabinet parts, then it get's more complicated. I've never used Biesseworks, but I'm sure it's a matter of learning how to create files the way it wants them.

If you're coming from a basic Mach3 or plain g-code background, you've got a lot to learn. If you're trying to learn it on your own, you're in for a steep learning curve. When people buy machines like that, they typically get a week of training to get them running. Most people just scratch the surface in that week, learning just enough to make basic parts.

What kind of work will you be using the machine for exactly? Do you have any other software?

[Matt Ribble]

-Appreciate the cost estimate. I was under the impression it was far less intensive. Idea out the window.

-Back ground is running Anilam/Fanuc/Mach3 based controllers with metalworking. The lack of visual basic understanding makes it hard for me to really know whats going to happen when I press go.

-This machine is a complete mystery to me. The resources I have to learn are the PDF's and the operators manual. Neither were written by a native english speaker.

-I have access to Vcarve though I know nothing of how to make it work properly with the machine/controller. What would you suggest as far as software goes? I would very much like to use Vectric purely out of familiarity

-I am given DXF's of the particular parts they want made. Sometimes I make my own via autocad. I do zero drawing in program if I can help it

-Without being able to change tools/etc I just kind of guessed my way through day 1 via its intergrated cam options. Turned out I made cabinet sides. I am a chimp hitting buttons and praying.

-Expected work load : Cutting counter tops, cabinets and various other "can't be done on the tablesaw" work. This will most likely be expanded as I know how to do it/ideas come in.

-Do you know of anywhere I can get more reading material? The PDF's are woefully inadequate.

[ger21]

The resources I have to learn are the PDF's and the operators manual. Neither were written by a native english speaker.

Typical of Italian machines.

If you know what you're doing, you should be able to write a V-Carve Pro post for the Biesse. However, you won't be able to use the drills, as Vectic's products don't support multiple spindle drilling heads. Just to see if I could, I wrote a post for our Morbidelli that will run the router correctly.

Typically there are no tool change commands on these machines. You usually specify the tool with the operation, and the tool change will be done automaticlally. Likewise, usually you don't program rapid moves. They are done automatically between operations.
Again, I haven't used a Biesse, but the Masterwood and Morbidelli I've used both work similarly.

For software, I like Cadcode.. I currently use AlphaCAM, but I'm not a big fan. You want a package that's designed to write g-code for point to point machines. Be prepared to spend $3k-$5K minimum, and have another steep learning curve.

Everything that I do comes from .dxf's created in AutoCAD.

Best place to ask about this machine would be Woodweb.

Sounds like your in a bit over your head. good luck.

P.S. If you get really good with these types of machines, you can make a very good living. There aren't many people out there that really know what they're doing, so you can almost name your price, once you do.

[metalworkz]

-I have access to Vcarve though I know nothing of how to make it work properly with the machine/controller. What would you suggest as far as software goes? I would very much like to use Vectric purely out of familiarity
.

Hello,
VcarvePro version 5.5 has 4 different Biesse post processors and version 6 has one Biesse PP. Perhaps you should look at the post processors available in the version you have access to and see if it will create a toolpath that is workable with the machine? The generated code could be compared to some of the current code and might reveal obvious differences or similarities? Just a thought.

[bigz1]

What type of cabinets are you making?

My experience is with the much older Biesse Rover 321(94 model). Which at present is all hand coded parametric programs.

I have 18 years of making kitchen cabinets and also own VCarve. Although Vcarve is great its is not going to give you the flexibility of a parametric program.

I cant use Bisseworks on my my machine but perhaps this is of use to you:-

Biesse & Intermac in North America - Biesse Software

OBW I was introduced as the CNC expert on day one of starting a career in CNC. I only got the job as the guy who interviewed me saw a picture of my homemade machine in the CV. I had been relying on VCarve and didn't even no what a G1 command did. That was only 2 years ago. I suggest you do some swatting up on the manuals. Read a bit code, ask questions on this forum and be prepared for mistakes.

Good luck

[Matt Ribble]

I appreciate the help guys. Looks like there's no easy way out and I will simply have to learn the biesseworks myself.

Cabinet types :
-Curvy stuff. For the most part anything that would take too long to do by hand or is flat out too complicated. In the future they would like me doing countertops/etc with the laminate already installed to save time. Both residential and commercial cabinets.

They haven't said anything as to decorative stuff, which would probably going into the vcarve territory.