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Thread: Last One - 4'x6' Steel, Epoxy and ClearPath servo's

  1. #61
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    Default Re: Last One - 4'x6' Steel, Epoxy and ClearPath servo's

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    OK, the picture in the spec pdf is different than the one on the main page.
    However, it's speaker wire.....
    It is rated for maritime use, so it would be great for those days when you need to CNC on the boat!

    I believe though, 1Jumper10, if you're going to use ClearPath servos, steel frame epoxy leveled, and GAM planetary gearheads, why cheap out on the spindle cable?!



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    Default Re: Last One - 4'x6' Steel, Epoxy and ClearPath servo's

    Yeah but it's marine grade speaker wire 😀
    It's 14ga, and it's shielded it's constructed similarly to the cables rated for high flexibility... I think it will work. If I get it and it's far too stiff well, lesson learned I guess. Then I'll​ get the Igus cable. Let's hope I'm not being penny wise and pound foolish. 😀

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



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    Default Re: Last One - 4'x6' Steel, Epoxy and ClearPath servo's

    300volts RMS is more than the spindle -> 240volts RMS.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



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    Default Re: Last One - 4'x6' Steel, Epoxy and ClearPath servo's

    Don't buy that stuff Jumper10, you need flexible cable with a braided shield or you will just end up throwing this stuff away and buying replacement cable. Need the braided shield for sure.
    Russ



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    Default Re: Last One - 4'x6' Steel, Epoxy and ClearPath servo's

    Russ, Louis-a and Gerry I appreciate your input and I value your opinion's. It was $40 and it's on the way. If it is totally unsuitable I'll get the right stuff. I'll post here when it arrives.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Jumper10 View Post
    Russ, Louis-a and Gerry I appreciate your input and I value your opinion's. It was $40 and it's on the way. If it is totally unsuitable I'll get the right stuff. I'll post here when it arrives.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
    it'll probably work ok...



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    Default Re: Last One - 4'x6' Steel, Epoxy and ClearPath servo's

    Jumper10,

    You will find out shortly that you will need a cable that looks similar to this listing. This was for 100' clearly way more than you need but you can find people that sell this stuff on ebay in much shorter lengths. Notice the braided shield, this is standard VFD spindle motor cable. Unless you are the luckiest guy on the planet you will notice you lose control of the CNC controller as soon as you start the spindle motor. This is caused by the EMI that spews from the VFD and Spindle motor when running. That noise runs down all the lines and will impact the low voltage controller and often impact the software on the PC, like MACH3 where it will become non-responsive. If you see these tell tale signs as soon as you start your spindle you will know what you need to do. Also some people notice VFD will start momentarily and then just stop. All kinds of strange behaviors.

    Russ


    BELDEN - 29500 010100 - CABLE; VFD; SHLD MULTICOND; 4COND; 16AWG; 100FT; 1KV; B | eBay



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    Default Re: Last One - 4'x6' Steel, Epoxy and ClearPath servo's

    Quote Originally Posted by CNCMAN172 View Post
    Jumper10,

    You will find out shortly that you will need a cable that looks similar to this listing. This was for 100' clearly way more than you need but you can find people that sell this stuff on ebay in much shorter lengths. Notice the braided shield, this is standard VFD spindle motor cable. Unless you are the luckiest guy on the planet you will notice you lose control of the CNC controller as soon as you start the spindle motor. This is caused by the EMI that spews from the VFD and Spindle motor when running. That noise runs down all the lines and will impact the low voltage controller and often impact the software on the PC, like MACH3 where it will become non-responsive. If you see these tell tale signs as soon as you start your spindle you will know what you need to do. Also some people notice VFD will start momentarily and then just stop. All kinds of strange behaviors.

    Russ


    BELDEN - 29500 010100 - CABLE; VFD; SHLD MULTICOND; 4COND; 16AWG; 100FT; 1KV; B | eBay
    https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-e...-wire/=17apt1w



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    Default Re: Last One - 4'x6' Steel, Epoxy and ClearPath servo's

    Thanks for the links.
    Been working on configuring the VFD the last couple days. I think 14ga wire is overkill, 16ga is probably better suited as Russ linked to. McMaster sells it in the lengths I will need.

    Been figuring out the Hitachi VFD. Im using their software to run it and adjust it. Got it working well in Constant Torque mode. 4sec Accel and 3 sec decel. Tried sensorless vector mode but it's faulting on overcurrent when it starts. I think SV mode is what I want?? Also, just a side not, I'm using unshielded wire right now to bench test it. Haven't had any negative affects on my laptop or other electronics in the vicinity. I'm going to set up a pair of speakers near it and listen for interference just for grins.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



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    Default Re: Last One - 4'x6' Steel, Epoxy and ClearPath servo's

    #14- 4 Cond. shielded listed on eBay
    #14 Gauge 4 Wire Double-Shielded Motor Cable | eBay



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    Default Re: Last One - 4'x6' Steel, Epoxy and ClearPath servo's

    Also, just a side not, I'm using unshielded wire right now to bench test it. Haven't had any negative affects on my laptop or other electronics in the vicinity
    Same here, and I'm using 3 14awg MTW wires.

    However. I've been told that my analog speed control issues are likely due to noise issues. I'm waiting on come capacitors to arrive from Singapore to see if noise is really the issue.
    And tonight, while doing some more spindle testing, UCCNC froze twice. So perhaps there is some noise, but it's not readily noticed. I've run the spindle several times in the last week or two and tonight is the first time I've seen any issues.

    As for wire gauge. It would seem like even 18 gauge would be good, as it's rated for 10-14 amps, and my spindle is only 8.5.
    But I'm probably going to go with the Igus CF-31. I probably need 50ft, because I have 2 spindles. But the extra $50-$75 will be cheap insurance, and negligible in the overall cost. My servo cables will probably be $300-$400.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: Last One - 4'x6' Steel, Epoxy and ClearPath servo's

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    Same here, and I'm using 3 14awg MTW wires.

    However. I've been told that my analog speed control issues are likely due to noise issues. I'm waiting on come capacitors to arrive from Singapore to see if noise is really the issue.
    And tonight, while doing some more spindle testing, UCCNC froze twice. So perhaps there is some noise, but it's not readily noticed. I've run the spindle several times in the last week or two and tonight is the first time I've seen any issues.

    As for wire gauge. It would seem like even 18 gauge would be good, as it's rated for 10-14 amps, and my spindle is only 8.5.
    But I'm probably going to go with the Igus CF-31. I probably need 50ft, because I have 2 spindles. But the extra $50-$75 will be cheap insurance, and negligible in the overall cost. My servo cables will probably be $300-$400.
    Being rated for 20 million continuous flex cycles doesn't hurt either...



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    Default Re: Last One - 4'x6' Steel, Epoxy and ClearPath servo's

    18ga cable might work but 16ga will definitely work. Sensorless vector control can reach %200 torque at .5hz. I think I also saw where max current can be briefly exceeded by %150 in some scenarios. The Hitachi manual wants to use 12ga wire for power input and 14ga to the spindle. Still, for a router spindle where the loads are fairly steady I'm comfortable using 16ga.

    And ref electrical interference the manual recommends shielded cable obviously but it says that most of the noise is generated by the switching semiconductors in the unit itself. So I'm thinking about housing it in its own shielded enclosure away from the other electronics. Lots to read in the manual. It's 420 pages!

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



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    Default Re: Last One - 4'x6' Steel, Epoxy and ClearPath servo's

    Sensorless vector control can reach %200 torque at .5hz
    I'm not so sure that cheap chinese spindles can handle that.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: Last One - 4'x6' Steel, Epoxy and ClearPath servo's

    My 14ga/4con shielded marine grade cable arrived today. Its too stiff to work but I got a good deal on it I'll be ordering some shielded 16ga/4con cable probably from McMaster Carr shortly.

    I spent the better part of the last 3 days working on getting my Hitachi VFD and 2.2KW spindle tuned up. The manual for the WJ200 SF is 419 pages. It also has a quick start guide thats about 50 or so. I read almost all of both. I also used Hitachi's Next Drive pro software for programming and testing. Doing this through the keypad would have been very tedious. But I got it working extremely well! I'll put together a detailed post with my final parameters and post it in this thread.



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    Default Re: Last One - 4'x6' Steel, Epoxy and ClearPath servo's

    Did you use the analog from the MB2?

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Hitachi WJ200-022SF and 2.2KW spindle, Sensorless Vector tuning parameters

    This is how I tuned my Hitachi WJ200-022S/F VFD to my KL2200 2.2Kw watercooled spindle motor. I have only bench tested these settings so use them at your own risk.

    I used the Hitachi Next Drive Pro software on a Windows 7 64bit laptop to program the VFD. I had the user manual disk in the optical drive to use as a reference.

    Industrial Inverters Software Downloads | ICED : Hitachi America, Ltd. Read the install instructions. It will save you some time and frustration.

    The WJ200 VFD has about 3 different main operational modes; Constant Torque, Variable torque, and Sensorless Vector Drive (SLV). CT is the default, SLV is what you want for a router spindle. CT and SLV are the heavy duty settings, Variable torque is the Normal duty.

    During this process I had a lot of over current trips, motor squeals and unsteady operation. These are all things that told me I was doing somethings wrong. The motor should run fairly quiet and steady.
    I monitored the output current for most of this as a gauge of how efficient my parameters were getting. In CT mode just free running on the bench it would draw about 2.7amps. In SLV it was less, ~1.7amps.

    For SLV operation you have to follow the auto tune instructions in Chapter 4. Some parameters have to be set correctly BEFORE you auto tune and they are listed there. After Auto-Tuning download all parameters to the VFD. I was able to accelerate to max speed and then decelerate to zero in 1 second! I do have a braking resistor installed. I wouldn't recommend those settings without one.

    Here are the parameter values I've settled on now. Again, this is only having bench tested it. If these settings drastically change when its on the CNC I'll update them but I dont see why they would. I will run the auto-tune program again when I have my permanent power cable installed as it will make some difference in electrical characteristics.


    F002 ACCELERATION TIME 1.7
    F003 DECELERATION TIME 1.5 (BRAKING RESISTOR INSTALLED)

    A002 RUN COMMAND SOURCE (USER PREFERENCE) 03:MODBUS
    A003 BASE FREQUENCY 400
    A004 MAX FREQUENCY 400
    A041 TORQUE BOOST 01: (AUTOMATIC)
    A044 V/F CHARACTERISTIC CURVE 03: (SENSORLESS VECTOR)
    A045 V/F GAIN 50
    A082 AVR VOLTAGE SELECT 02: (220)
    A097 ACCELERATION CURVE 00: (LINEAR)
    A098 DECELERATION CURVE 00: (LINEAR)
    B012 LEVEL OF ELECTRONIC THERMAL PROTECTION 50
    B021 OVERLOAD RESTRICTION OPERATION MODE 00: (DISABLED)
    B082 START FREQ 6
    B083 CARRIER FREQ 7.7
    B090 DYNAMIC BRAKING RATIO 10
    B095 DYNAMIC BRAKING CONTROL 02: ENABLE ALWAYS
    C028 AM TERMINAL SELECTION (USER PREFERENCE) 01: OUTPUT CURRENT
    C064 HEATSINK OVERHEAT WARNING 75


    H GROUP PARAMETERS ARE SET BY AUTO TUNING AND WILL BE DIFFERENT FOR DIFFERENT APPLICATIONS! I LIST MINE HERE ONLY FOR REFERENCE. THEY ARE SET AUTOMATICALLY AFTER PARAMETER H004:

    H002 MOTOR CONSTANT SELECTION 02: AUTO TUNED DATA
    H004 MOTOR POLES SETTINGS 00: (2 POLES)
    H030 MOTOR CONSTANT R1 (AUTO TUNED DATA) .845
    H031 MOTOR CONSTANT R2 (AUTO TUNED DATA) .487
    H032 MOTOR CONSTANT L (AUTO TUNED DATA) 5.75
    H033 MOTOR CONSTANT IO (AUTO TUNED DATA) 4.96
    H034 MOTOR CONSTANT J (AUTO TUNED DATA) .012

    Sorry about the formatting. I couldnt figure out how to post it with paragraph(?) formatting.



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    Default Re: Last One - 4'x6' Steel, Epoxy and ClearPath servo's

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    Did you use the analog from the MB2?
    No. I only set the parameters in the VFD and got it and the spindle operational. Next step is integration with the motion controller and UCCNC software. On that note, I think the pulse train input on the Hitachi is compatible with the step and direction spindle control of UCCNC. It looks like it is on paper anyway.



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    Default Re: Last One - 4'x6' Steel, Epoxy and ClearPath servo's

    I'd use the PWM, since the MB2 is designed to use that with the analog control.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: Last One - 4'x6' Steel, Epoxy and ClearPath servo's

    hi gerry it is true that cncroom will build breakout board for uc300eth?
    and why you don't the 1st and the 2nd port of mb2 to the 2nd and the 3rd of uc300eth?
    and you cut pin 26 (5v) from the ribon?



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Last One - 4'x6' Steel, Epoxy and ClearPath servo's