2nd build - For a friend

[1Jumper10]

Hi dokwine. I somehow missed your post and wanted to reply. What model servo's did you decide on?
Concerning system harmonics and ClearPath tuning; hopefully, I wont have many harmonics to worry about. I think if I build well enough, the machine will be rigid enough to be mostly inert when it comes to vibrations. Plus, I think the inertia load the servo senses when it auto tunes is more important. And with the sand box method I should be able to replicate that pretty well.

Did I tell you I tried the cable method to auto tune? It didn't work. I used cheap pulleys at the corners and vinyl coated cable and this added a lot of unnatural friction. With higher quality pulleys and thinner, un-coated cable it might have completed the auto tune process but, it would have been tuned for double the load it actually would be moving.

Good luck with your build.

[dokwine]

I went with CPM-SDSK-3421S for x and y, and CPM-SDSK-2321S for Z; probably about the same as you? Seemed the largest in the price/speed range I was looking at. right now I'm side-tracked on building my controller. I have LCNC and Mesa 7i76 twitching but I got a boat load of cables to do and need to get it into boxes.

I'll probably try the sandbox method 1st. certainly is a good time now to weigh the gantry

btw, I've been meaning to ask - did you need any sort of brake on the z axis when using the CP's with the power off?

[1Jumper10]

Those are the same models I used.

I didn't need any sort of brake for my z axis.

[eat5hams]

Excellent build thread! I'm very excited to see your next one! I too have been reading Fluxion's steel build thread and think that is the route I will go (I'm in Canada and have a decently stocked metal working shop and aluminum is expensive/not easily available in my area), so I'm curious to see your design for a steel gantry. Interested in the Clearpath Servos but thinking I might go with the standard NEMA34 Steppers at around 1/4 the price. although maybe I'm not understanding how the power ratings match up between the servos and the steppers. I like everything I hear about the Clearplaths but not sure I can justify the cost. Of course I haven't done a detailed investigation yet. Just starting to think about the whole process.

Thanks again!

[1Jumper10]

Thanks Eat5hams.
If you have the skills and abilities to work with steel its much less expensive than aluminum.
Dont forget to consider when pricing out steppers vs Clearpath servos that the Clearpath units are driver-and-motor in one. And I think a true comparison would be against some of the newer hybrid stepper motors/drives that have a closed feedback loop. Good luck with your build. I've started my last build and the thread is in this forum.

[eat5hams]

Ya I'll definitely keep them in mind! I was thinking that it would make sense to build my frame and gantry before deciding on which steppers, but I guess i should decide before I actually mount the gantry so I could tune the clearpaths on the y-axis independently as you pointed out is needed. Cool, I'll go find your other thread. Cheers!

[WhiteWolf]

Hello,

Thank you for sharing your build, I am new to CNC and looking to make my first machine the right machine The clearpath servos is what led me to your build.

I have a few questions because I want to add these electronics to this CNC machine: https://www.finelineautomation.com/p...er?taxon_id=54

I will be purchasing the machine with no electronics and you had stated that later you would provide more photos of the wiring, is that still possible?

Also is there any chance you could give a complete BOM for your electronics? I know mine will vary a little since this machine runs with 4 motors of the same size. But its unclear to how many power supplies I need and if I need things like the ClearPath Power Distribution Hub and ClearPath-SC Communication Hub

[1Jumper10]

Hello,

Thank you for sharing your build, I am new to CNC and looking to make my first machine the right machine The clearpath servos is what led me to your build.

I have a few questions because I want to add these electronics to this CNC machine: https://www.finelineautomation.com/p...er?taxon_id=54

I will be purchasing the machine with no electronics and you had stated that later you would provide more photos of the wiring, is that still possible?

Also is there any chance you could give a complete BOM for your electronics? I know mine will vary a little since this machine runs with 4 motors of the same size. But its unclear to how many power supplies I need and if I need things like the ClearPath Power Distribution Hub and ClearPath-SC Communication Hub

All you need is one power supply and 4 servo motors and your done. Each motor gets power from the power supply and it's step and direction data from your motion control board. I don't know if I kept the BOM for everything and it's on a different computer at the moment. The Saturn model FLA machine you are going to build uses a 3:1 gear reduction on the X and Y axis. I recommend the "S" model Clearpath for that ratio. Gotta run. If you have more questions just ask here and I'll help if I can.

[WhiteWolf]

5V Relay or 12v Relay or both?
GEREE 8-Channel DC 12V 8CH Relay Module with Optocoupler
GEREE 8-Channel DC 5V 8CH Relay Module with Optocoupler

Which power supplies did you use for your 5v, 12v and 24v?



This is what I have so far, am I mising anything?

# Teknic.com
(4) $1676 - ClearPath® - Integrated Servo System (CPM-SDSK-3421S-ELN)
(1) $248 - Clearpath The Amazon™ Intelligent Power Center (“IPC-5”)
(1) $49 - ClearPath Power Distribution Hub
(1) $12 - 24 Volt Power, 2-Pin Molex Cable (CPM-CABLE-M2P2P-120)


# cncdrive.com
(1) $160 - UC300ETH-5LPT ethernet motion controller
(2) $44 - DB25 Male Straight Connector, DIN Mount (BRKG25M-S-DIN)


# Amazon.com
(2) $8 - DB25 Female to 26 Pin Female 2.54mm Pitch IDC Ribbon Cable
(1) $7 - Siemens ECGB142 Ground Bar Kit with 14 Terminal Positions and a Ground Lug
(1) $5 - DIN Rail Slotted Aluminum RoHS 12"
(1) $20 - 2inx1inx5.6ft Open Slot Wiring Cable Raceway Duct with Cover


# cncrouterparts.com
(1) $287 - Pepperl + Fuchs Proximity Sensor Kit
- 5V/4A 12V/1A Dual Switching Power Supply
- Din Rail and Terminal Block Kit
(1) $16 - Emergency Stop


# driveswarehouse.com
(1) $338 - Hitachi 2.2 kW VFD (WJ200-022SF)


# buildyourcnc.com
(1) $339 - 2.2 kW (kilowatt) Water Cooled Spindle
(1) $29 - Water Pump - Submersible 370 Gallons (1400L) Per Hour
(1) $60 - Silicone Tubing 1/4 Inside Diameter and 3/8 Outside Diameter (40ft)


# store.sacelec.com
(1) $33 - Belden 5200FE 100ft 16/2 Shielded Stranded Cable
(1) $33 - Belden 5506FE 100ft 22/8 Stranded Shielded Cable


# Mouser.com
(1) $0.41 - Molex (39-01-2080) Mini-Fit Jr.™ Receptacle Housing, Dual Row, 8 Circuits, UL 94V-2, Natural
(10) $1.21 - Molex (39-00-0039) Mini-Fit® Female Crimp Terminal, 18-24 AWG, Bag

(7) $4.83 - Molex (44441-2002) Sabre™ Receptacle Crimp Housing, UL 94V-0, 2 Circuits
(14) $2.24 - Molex (43375-0001) Sabre™ Crimp Terminal, Female, 14-16 AWG

(4) $1.88 - Molex (39-03-9042) Mini-Fit Jr.™ Receptacle Housing, Dual Row, 4 Circuits, UL 94V-0, Black
(16) $1.90 - Molex (39-00-0078) Mini-Fit® Female Crimp Terminal, 16 AWG, Bag

(4) $2.32 - Molex (39-03-9082) Mini-Fit Jr.™ Receptacle Housing, Dual Row, 8 Circuits, UL 94V-0, Black
(32) $3.36 - Molex (39-00-0047) Mini-Fit® Female Crimp Terminal, 22-28 AWG, Bag

(1) $10 - NMB Technologies (3110SB-05W-B50-E00) 80mm fan for clearpath power supply

[eat5hams]

Do you need a VFD for the spindle?

[A_Camera]

Do you need a VFD for the spindle?

Yes.

# driveswarehouse.com
(1) $338 - Hitachi 2.2 kW VFD (WJ200-022SF)

It's in his list.

[1Jumper10]

5V Relay or 12v Relay or both?
GEREE 8-Channel DC 12V 8CH Relay Module with Optocoupler
GEREE 8-Channel DC 5V 8CH Relay Module with Optocoupler

Which power supplies did you use for your 5v, 12v and 24v?



This is what I have so far, am I mising anything?

WhiteWolf where are you located? Those prices are comparable to what I paid but all are a little higher I think. Higher shipping charges maybe?

I just saw your post. There are a couple unnecessary things but mostly it looks good. I'll scrub it closely later today and let you know.

[1Jumper10]

# Teknic.com
(4) $1676 - ClearPath® - Integrated Servo System (CPM-SDSK-3421S-ELN)
(1) $248 - Clearpath The Amazon™ Intelligent Power Center (“IPC-5”)
(1) $49 - ClearPath Power Distribution Hub

The only thing you might not need is the enhanced version of the servo motor. It depends on your gear ratio. If your higher than 5:1 its a judgement call. At 3:1 you definitely want the enhanced models like you specified.

I did not use the Power distribution hub and I dont recommend it. The motors themselves have a 4 pin power connector that lets you daisy chain power on down the line. And the IPC500 power supply has 2 ports on it as well. I wired mine with my Y axis motors on one port and the Z and X motors on the other port. The only thing I can see using the power hub for would be for some data saving strategy in the event of an E-Stop. My E-stop switch interrupts the enable circuit for each motor and the motors in turn send the "not OK' signal to the motion controller to let it know that an E-stop has occured. If your E-stop strategy is different then it might work for you.

(1) $12 - 24 Volt Power, 2-Pin Molex Cable (CPM-CABLE-M2P2P-120)



# cncdrive.com
(1) $160 - UC300ETH-5LPT ethernet motion controller
(2) $44 - DB25 Male Straight Connector, DIN Mount (BRKG25M-S-DIN)
I used the UC400ETH and wished I would have used the UC300ETH-5LPT. Good choice.


# Amazon.com
(2) $8 - DB25 Female to 26 Pin Female 2.54mm Pitch IDC Ribbon Cable
(1) $7 - Siemens ECGB142 Ground Bar Kit with 14 Terminal Positions and a Ground Lug
(1) $5 - DIN Rail Slotted Aluminum RoHS 12"
(1) $20 - 2inx1inx5.6ft Open Slot Wiring Cable Raceway Duct with Cover
Again, good choice for cable management. I used cable grommets and admittedly my control box is not the most space effecient or the neatest. Its is functional and reliable however.


# cncrouterparts.com
(1) $287 - Pepperl + Fuchs Proximity Sensor Kit
- 5V/4A 12V/1A Dual Switching Power Supply
- Din Rail and Terminal Block Kit
(1) $16 - Emergency Stop
I had sensors already but I did just order this same set for my 3rd build. I have powered them up but they look very high quality.


# driveswarehouse.com
(1) $338 - Hitachi 2.2 kW VFD (WJ200-022SF)
I just got this very same VFD for my 3rd router and it is a real nice VFD with lots of options and a manual that you can read and understand! A little more money than a LaPond or Hyuang but well worth it IMO.


# buildyourcnc.com
(1) $339 - 2.2 kW (kilowatt) Water Cooled Spindle
(1) $29 - Water Pump - Submersible 370 Gallons (1400L) Per Hour
(1) $60 - Silicone Tubing 1/4 Inside Diameter and 3/8 Outside Diameter (40ft)
I got the KL-2200 spindle from Automation Technologies. Again, more money than a Taishi or Ebay special but its the 3rd one I've put my hands on and it appears much better than the cheaper versions. The VFD connector especially is better and the rotation is freer on the collet.
You want polyethelene tubing. Its commonly used to hook up water to ice makers in refrigerators and big-box home stores have it pretty cheap.

# store.sacelec.com
(1) $33 - Belden 5200FE 100ft 16/2 Shielded Stranded Cable
(1) $33 - Belden 5506FE 100ft 22/8 Stranded Shielded Cable

Check Ebay for good deals on cable.


# Mouser.com
(1) $0.41 - Molex (39-01-2080) Mini-Fit Jr.™ Receptacle Housing, Dual Row, 8 Circuits, UL 94V-2, Natural
(10) $1.21 - Molex (39-00-0039) Mini-Fit® Female Crimp Terminal, 18-24 AWG, Bag

(7) $4.83 - Molex (44441-2002) Sabre™ Receptacle Crimp Housing, UL 94V-0, 2 Circuits
(14) $2.24 - Molex (43375-0001) Sabre™ Crimp Terminal, Female, 14-16 AWG

(4) $1.88 - Molex (39-03-9042) Mini-Fit Jr.™ Receptacle Housing, Dual Row, 4 Circuits, UL 94V-0, Black
(16) $1.90 - Molex (39-00-0078) Mini-Fit® Female Crimp Terminal, 16 AWG, Bag

(4) $2.32 - Molex (39-03-9082) Mini-Fit Jr.™ Receptacle Housing, Dual Row, 8 Circuits, UL 94V-0, Black
(32) $3.36 - Molex (39-00-0047) Mini-Fit® Female Crimp Terminal, 22-28 AWG, Bag

(1) $10 - NMB Technologies (3110SB-05W-B50-E00) 80mm fan for clearpath power supply

You can save a lot of money making your own cables like this. Teknic doesn't sell them cheap.

Last thing, the 80mm fan for the power supply is probably unnecessary unless you are going to be machining at speeds that would make Datron envious! On my machine I really could have used NEMA 23's and been more size appropriate. The NEMA34's and the IPC500 arent even breathing hard. They barely even get warm. Even on a 3 hour test run.

[messages4alex]

On the Clearpath motors... are you really using all 8 shielded conductors to move the motors on your build?
Why get 22/8 Stranded Shielded Cable when just by looking at Teknic's website, they tout just needing a step/dir?
Looking at the documentation, it clearly shows needing A+/-, B +/-, enable/disable, and encoder feedback?

Is a driver needed? or did you just send step/dir to it?

Also Since these motors dont lose their position, are limit switches even necessary? I understand the need for homing switches. I didnt see on your build if you added limit switches.

[1Jumper10]

On the Clearpath motors... are you really using all 8 shielded conductors to move the motors on your build?
Why get 22/8 Stranded Shielded Cable when just by looking at Teknic's website, they tout just needing a step/dir?
Looking at the documentation, it clearly shows needing A+/-, B +/-, enable/disable, and encoder feedback?

Is a driver needed? or did you just send step/dir to it?

Also Since these motors dont lose their position, are limit switches even necessary? I understand the need for homing switches. I didnt see on your build if you added limit switches.

The driver is on/in the motor. No external driver is needed. On my 8 pin molex connectors 4 pins were ground, and 4 pins were the positive side of the step, direction, enable and high-level-feedback circuits. I could have used a 5 conductor cable if I wanted to mess around Daisy chaining the single ground wire to the 4 pins at the molex connector. I didn't think it was worth the hassle and just used 22/8.

I used 1 limit switch on the Z axis in addition to a home switch. The X and Y use only home switches and software limits to limit travel. I also set travel limits in the x and z axis motors themselves just as a fail safe. But the motor limits only kick in outside the software limits.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[1Jumper10]

Also, there is no position feedback with the CP's. There is what they call a high level feedback which I have set to trigger if the motor is more than 1/4 revolution away from it's commanded position. The error amount can be changed in firmware but it's not like a true servo motor and drive that uses a closed feedback loop. If mine gets out of position more than I've specified, the high level feedback disables the motor. The software treats this just like an E stop and shuts down.



Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[WhiteWolf]

On the Clearpath motors... are you really using all 8 shielded conductors to move the motors on your build?
Why get 22/8 Stranded Shielded Cable when just by looking at Teknic's website, they tout just needing a step/dir?
Looking at the documentation, it clearly shows needing A+/-, B +/-, enable/disable, and encoder feedback?

Is a driver needed? or did you just send step/dir to it?

Also Since these motors dont lose their position, are limit switches even necessary? I understand the need for homing switches. I didnt see on your build if you added limit switches.

You dont need shielded cable for it hecause they are immune to noise and the Teknic IPC has a built in EMI filter... my list has shielded only because i found it at a good deal. The OEM cables are unshielded.

[WhiteWolf]

WhiteWolf where are you located? Those prices are comparable to what I paid but all are a little higher I think. Higher shipping charges maybe?

I just saw your post. There are a couple unnecessary things but mostly it looks good. I'll scrub it closely later today and let you know.

Those prices were before shipping, I lowered the Z axis to regular instead of enhanced like you did to lower price a bit. The ball screw is 5/1 like yours

I had chose to use the power distribution hub because it said that it helps remember position, but it sounds like i can wire the estop in a way that it does not matter. So i will return the distribution hub and 48vdc power supply that gives it logic power and save myself some cash.

Which Relay do I need for powering the sensors and turning on the water pump?

for 12v and 5v power supply i just went with the one that is bundled with the CNCRP limit switches... seems that is enough to power the ucc300eth and relayboard?

Is there anything else i need for the Hitachi VFD modbus to control it through the ucc300eth?

[1Jumper10]

Sensors shouldnt be on a relay. They should be powered all the time. CNCRP has a link for how to wire them up and it shows 12v power. I havent looked at how the UC300ETH hooks up to the sensors so you might want to see if it will power them. But I'm pretty sure that if you get a 5v relay board you can power it from the UC300ETH?? The powersupply you got from CNCRP should work just fine. A 12V relayboard will require a 12v power supply but either board would switch on power to your coolant pump. Its good practice to put your coolant pump on its own relay and maybe its own power supply. Its possible that it will make some electrical noise that may interfere with your sensors. Those kinds of problems are hard to troubleshoot. Best to not even tempt fate and isolate noisy components as much as possible from the sensitive ones like sensors etc. This one would likely work: 4-CHANNEL RELAY MODULE | All Electronics Corp.

Ref the Hitachi VFD and MODBUS; I do not know. I wouldnt even mess with it. One of the reasons I got the UC300ETH this time is that it will output a 0-10v analog signal to directly control the speed of the VFD. Seems simple enough to not have to mess with MODBUS. From glancing at the quick start guide, it looks like it just hooks up with a 2 wire connection.

[WhiteWolf]

Sensors shouldnt be on a relay. They should be powered all the time. CNCRP has a link for how to wire them up and it shows 12v power. I havent looked at how the UC300ETH hooks up to the sensors so you might want to see if it will power them. But I'm pretty sure that if you get a 5v relay board you can power it from the UC300ETH?? The powersupply you got from CNCRP should work just fine. A 12V relayboard will require a 12v power supply but either board would switch on power to your coolant pump. Its good practice to put your coolant pump on its own relay and maybe its own power supply. Its possible that it will make some electrical noise that may interfere with your sensors. Those kinds of problems are hard to troubleshoot. Best to not even tempt fate and isolate noisy components as much as possible from the sensitive ones like sensors etc. This one would likely work: 4-CHANNEL RELAY MODULE | All Electronics Corp.

Ref the Hitachi VFD and MODBUS; I do not know. I wouldnt even mess with it. One of the reasons I got the UC300ETH this time is that it will output a 0-10v analog signal to directly control the speed of the VFD. Seems simple enough to not have to mess with MODBUS. From glancing at the quick start guide, it looks like it just hooks up with a 2 wire connection.

Not sure what I was thinking, I dont need a relay board since the pump i got from buildyourcnc.com is 120v... just needs to be wired to the same power switch as the 120v Teknic IPC power supply. I will check out the documentation for the sensors, I was under the impression from reading other builds that the limit switches should be ran off a relay board with built in optocoupler to limit noise such as this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00PU3JYZO/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1489397200&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=12v+relay+optocoupler&dpPl=1&dpID=51VE3C4SIZL&ref=plSrch

I ordered the limit switch + homing switch kit with their Dual 12vdc 5dc addon which should take care of supplying the 5v logic power to the UC300ETH as well.

I was going to run the spindle and VFD on 220 and everything else on 120 so they are on seperate circuits for noise and because i dont want to run a second 220 .... you say the pump causes a lot of noise should i get the 220 pump instead? they offer it in both