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  1. #193
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2nd build - For a friend

    I bought a used card from a local EBay seller, for $10, and run my UC300ETH on it, and use the built in ethernet port for my network.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  2. #194
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    Default Re: 2nd build - For a friend

    I'll probably go the USB route. I know its more susceptible to interference but I think I can isolate it well enough. That, and the mini-computer has USB ports to spare. Ya'll get it figured out so when it comes time for me to do it I'll just have to upload your plugin's and hit start!



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    Default Re: 2nd build - For a friend

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Jumper10 View Post
    I'll probably go the USB route. I know its more susceptible to interference but I think I can isolate it well enough. That, and the mini-computer has USB ports to spare. Ya'll get it figured out so when it comes time for me to do it I'll just have to upload your plugin's and hit start!

    if you are going USB, this one appears to be noise isolated https://www.amazon.com/EZSync-RS485-...ords=USB+RS485

    you can get a used industrial router for $11 on amazon for ethernet method then just plug your pc and both devices into it, no configuration required. If your PC is on your home network then use a switch instead which can be had for $5 here is an industrial router: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0000...P1L&ref=plSrch



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    Default Re: 2nd build - For a friend

    So with MODBUS control of the VFD, is there something like a dashboard on your computer monitor that displays parameters like spindle status, current and​ RPM? Is it a display within UCCNC? Just trying to get an idea of something that I've never considered before.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



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    Default Re: 2nd build - For a friend

    Ger and Whitewolf thanks for all your helpful links and suggestions.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



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    Default Re: 2nd build - For a friend

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Jumper10 View Post
    So with MODBUS control of the VFD, is there something like a dashboard on your computer monitor that displays parameters like spindle status, current and​ RPM? Is it a display within UCCNC? Just trying to get an idea of something that I've never considered before.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
    The monitored values will be displayed as part of UCCNC through changes in the screen set. I have not yet implemented this in UCCNC due to other priorities (just tested) but done it in similar ways in Mach3. I will also upgrade the M3 and M4 macros so that the real RPM is read and the G code will not continue from M3 and M4 unless the set RPM is equal to the one reported by the VFD. This eliminates the need of fixed delay after M3 and M4 commands.

    https://adapting-camera.blogspot.com
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_vrAWOz5YGX6_e3qtXg3YA


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    Default Re: 2nd build - For a friend

    That's an advantage. I spent a lot of time researching Modbus over RS485 last night. I guess I feel like if I'm going to the trouble of implementing it, I want it to do more than just adjust spindle speed. I want some feedback from the VFD.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



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    Default Re: 2nd build - For a friend

    What feedback you can get and how is up to the VFD. Not all VFD allow reading of RPM for example. The UCCNC Modbus plugin which is delivered with the product support reading parameters but what you do with it is again up to you. Once I am starting the implementation I will document it. Done some tests before and that looks promising.

    https://adapting-camera.blogspot.com
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_vrAWOz5YGX6_e3qtXg3YA


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    Default Re: 2nd build - For a friend

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Jumper10 View Post
    That's an advantage. I spent a lot of time researching Modbus over RS485 last night. I guess I feel like if I'm going to the trouble of implementing it, I want it to do more than just adjust spindle speed. I want some feedback from the VFD.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
    RPM was a must have for me, but when I come to realize the VFD was only able to write back set frequency to calculate the RPM it seemed to be a waste of time. If your spindle was to cut under any load and rpm actually reduced it wouldn't show because the set frequency wouldn't change. I do believe most VFD's work this way.

    What I did implement in plugins and find very useful is the RPM from spindle override, we all been there when once cycle start was pressed RPM needed to be adjusted, seeing the actual RPM eliminated any calculating when trying to do this quickly.(see pic below)

    If you go with PWM this feature can also be implemented with a macro.

    2nd build - For a friend-spindle-override-jpg

    Dan



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    Default Re: 2nd build - For a friend

    Sact is updated much faster than the RPM (in fact, immediately) so if one does not want to risk to start cutting before the RPM is up then one must add dwell delay which is constant. It is true that most VFDs only give information about the frequency, but that frequency at start, when the M3 or M4 command is given, is much more accurate than the Sact, since Sact is immediate, while the RPM information from the VFD is not. It is based on the frequency response of the VFD and is a response based on what the VFD is feeding the spindle motor with, not just a mirrored back message about the frequency command from the software controlling the VFD. I know that at least my VFD, when it says the RPM is at a certain value then the RPM is REALLY very near, and it is accurate enough, milling can be started without further delay, no need for dwell. Additionally there is also a digital flag saying "spindle speed reached" and that flag indicates that the speed is within a few % (parameter defines the %) of the commanded speed. Sact is not the actual spindle speed, it is a set speed, one which we want the VFD to use.

    So, since the spindle speed information given by the VFD is more accurate than Sact (during start and stop) in my opinion it is NOT useless to read it, but it depends what you do with it and how the VFD you have behaves.

    Normally if you have a VFD which is a vector controlled (with or without sensors) then you get additional advantage. A sensorless vector controlled VFD monitors the motor coil currents, voltages and frequencies, as well as internal temperatures so it isn't actually completely sensorless, and knows when the spindle needs more current because of harder cut or whatever, and in that case it will increase the RPM, so the RPM will not drop. What a sensorless vector controlled VFD does not know is the exact angle of the spindle motor and the measured RPM.

    If the cutting load is a problem then the VFD (spindle) is underspecified or configured wrong, or used under wrong conditions (depth of cut, feed rate, RPM, type of tool and so on). Yes, motors cutting air and motors cutting in material are not the same, but the dropping of RPM should not be important and should not present an issue because if it does then something is wrong.

    Monitoring of VFD and spindle health is not done through RPM monitoring but through temperature and current monitoring. Those are the parameters to read if monitoring health is the goal.

    https://adapting-camera.blogspot.com
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_vrAWOz5YGX6_e3qtXg3YA


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    Default Re: 2nd build - For a friend

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan911 View Post
    RPM was a must have for me, but when I come to realize the VFD was only able to write back set frequency to calculate the RPM it seemed to be a waste of time. If your spindle was to cut under any load and rpm actually reduced it wouldn't show because the set frequency wouldn't change. I do believe most VFD's work this way.

    What I did implement in plugins and find very useful is the RPM from spindle override, we all been there when once cycle start was pressed RPM needed to be adjusted, seeing the actual RPM eliminated any calculating when trying to do this quickly.(see pic below)

    If you go with PWM this feature can also be implemented with a macro.

    2nd build - For a friend-spindle-override-jpg

    Dan
    Which VFD do you have? I dont know as much as you two gentlemen, just starting to wrap my head around all this but it seems to me that the Hitachi WJ200 was designed to be ran remotely over an ethernet network according to the literature on the Addon card. I cannot imagine that their modbus implementation was not designed to give accurate and relevent feedback due to this design goal but i could be wrong.



  12. #204
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    Default Re: 2nd build - For a friend

    I am far from being an expert regarding VFD, but as far as I know, no VFD can give you real RPM unless there is a feedback from the spindle to the VFD regarding the actual RPM. However, of course, based on the assumption that your system is implemented right and everything is working as expected, the Modbus information you get from the VFD regarding the RPM should be pretty accurate because it is always based on the configuration the VFD has regarding the time the VFD takes for outputting the frequency necessary to get the right RPM. So in that respect you are right, any decent VFD should be able give you pretty accurate information regarding the actual RPM because that is a tuning you should have done during the installation.

    https://adapting-camera.blogspot.com
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_vrAWOz5YGX6_e3qtXg3YA


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2nd build - For a friend
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