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Thread: Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos

    Back from Holiday and ready to get going on this project.

    Need to crack on and get the steel cut up.

    Received my MachBOB2 today, going to order a UC300ETH and a copy of UCCNC to try out over Mach3.



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    Default Re: Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos

    Just ordered my UC300 and copy of UCCNC. It will be interesting to see how it performs.

    Once it turns up i'll order a copy of Gerry's screenset for it.



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    Default Re: Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos

    That's the exact same combination I'm using on my build. I've only done limited bench testing but so far I'm happy. The UC300ETH and the MB2 are excellent quality and a pretty good value. I'm using the 2017 screenset on a different router but will eventually use it on my current build. It's a definite upgrade. Looking forward to your progress.

    Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk



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    Default Re: Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos

    Hi

    I have been speaking to cncroom (maker of the mb2) and they have new board coming made specifically for the UC300eth. The MB2 changed for the uc300eth.
    1st one should be ready in a couple of weeks.



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    Default Re: Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos

    Quote Originally Posted by iforeman View Post
    Hi

    I have been speaking to cncroom (maker of the mb2) and they have new board coming made specifically for the UC300eth. The MB2 changed for the uc300eth.
    1st one should be ready in a couple of weeks.
    : )

    I spotted Ger21 thread earlier, I'll be grabbing one asap.



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    Default Re: Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos

    OK, not much progress here but I haven't been ignoring this project.
    My business neighbor is a fabricator and was going to cut and weld the frame steel for me. Unfortunately his bandsaw is not cutting square enough for my purposes.
    This means at I will need to cut everything on my little 12" bandsaw which needs and stand and some rollers made first.

    After some consideration I have made a couple of changes to the build.
    Firstly I will be going with UCCNC and a UC300eth+UB1 for control rather than Mach3 and a CSMIO. The UC option comes out a fair bit cheaper than the CSMIO and UCCNC has a better TP.
    Secondly after taking on board a few of the comments on this thread and having a long think about it I am upping the spec of the X Axis servos.
    They are now going to be 1000W Leadshine L5 units running through 1:5 beltdrive reduction gearboxes.

    Considering how heavy I am building the frame (should be around 2.5 Metric tons when complete) the bigger servos will enable me to run the axis at full speed with some impressive acceleration.



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    Default Re: Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos

    Received a couple of packages lately. First the extra Mod1.25 racks showed up along with the NEMA32 gearboxes.
    Next the new 1KW Leadshine servos arrived.

    The new motors are considerably bigger than the 400W versions and so are the drives.
    The new moters and gearboxes will be on the X, X Slave and Y axis and I will have a 400W servo on the Z.

    I had to purchase new HDR pulleys for the gearboxes as the supplied 18T weren't going to be big enough to bore out for the larger motor shafts. I've gone to 22T - 90T for roughly 4:1 reduction. This would enable max speeds of 66M/Min.
    Dependent on my max rapids i think I'm going to be around 0.3-0.5G acceleration.

    The motors are 3.5NM torque and 9.6NM Peak at upto 3000RPM.

    Nic, if you want to run some numbers then be my guest

    Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos-1-jpg
    Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos-2-jpg
    Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos-3-jpg
    Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos-4-jpg
    Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos-5-jpg



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    Default Re: Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos

    Quote Originally Posted by matth View Post
    Next the new 1KW Leadshine servos arrived.
    Leadshine 1000W AC Servo Motor

    Are these the ones you bought? If not, can you find me a link please? I need to know the rotor inertia.

    Quote Originally Posted by matth View Post
    I will have a 400W servo on the Z.
    What are you going to do for a counterbalance? I am also building a machine with a big spindle. I'm looking at using two 32mm bore pneumatic cylinders and a small reservoir (half gallon to a gallon) attached to the gantry. That would give me a mid stroke pressure of around 77 PSI. With the smaller bore and higher working pressure it is possible to have a smaller reservoir.

    Initially I was thinking of gas springs, but they are heavily damped, so, not sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by matth View Post

    I had to purchase new HDR pulleys for the gearboxes as the supplied 18T weren't going to be big enough to bore out for the larger motor shafts. I've gone to 22T - 90T for roughly 4:1 reduction.
    Have you got a web link to your pulleys specs? Those are aluminum? Dimensions?

    The manufacturer may or may not have inertia values listed, but I can calculate them with the material (density) and dimensions. A weight and a radius is what i need.

    I may ignore the inertia of the actual belt.

    Also, your pinion, what is the effective radius or diameter (where 2 x pie x R gives the distance traveled per rotation, not the overall dimension), also, weight or dimensions, I assume it's steel.

    Quote Originally Posted by matth View Post
    Nic, if you want to run some numbers then be my guest
    Happy to. That's why I'm asking these questions.

    I'll also need some kind of estimate for the entire weight of the gantry, that includes everything that moves back and forth, including Z axis assembly, motors, uprights, bearings, cables, literally everything that goes back and forth. The easiest way I found was to make a spreadsheet in excel and start listing parts and estimates for each, then add them up. I can give you graphs that have a few different weights on them centered on your estimate.

    If you want some graphs for your Y axis, then I will need an estimate of the weight of everything that moves with the Y axis.

    If you want some graphs for your Z axis, then I will need an estimate of everything that moves up and down, the lead and diameter of your ballscrew, a link to your 400w servo to get torque vs speed and rotor inertia, the inertia and gear ratio of your gear reducer, and if you're going to be counterbalancing, which I assume, I'll pick a weight that your counterbalance is off by.

    Of course, my graphs won't include a number of things like bearing friction, and are only my opinion (don't sue me).

    For the next few days I will be very busy with some family commitments, so it will be a while before I can get back to you, but if you want to see my graphs, can do it just won't happen in the next few days and I need some more info.

    Also, I can't really say as far as using peak torque for acceleration. It depends on the geometry of what you're cutting. I can give you graphs that include peak and continuous, and it's up to you to make that judgement call, because I don't know.

    Looks like you're about to make something pretty fantastic.



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    Default Re: Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos

    Hello Matth,
    What NEMA size motor for that motor bracket? Can it be used for NEMA 23 and NEMA 34, it is adjustable?

    Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos-motor-bracket-jpg



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    Default Re: Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos

    Quote Originally Posted by asuratman View Post
    Hello Matth,
    What NEMA size motor for that motor bracket? Can it be used for NEMA 23 and NEMA 34, it is adjustable?

    Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos-motor-bracket-jpg
    Here's the Dimensions:

    Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos-img_0374-jpg



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    Default Re: Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos

    Gerry,
    How many kw servo would you say I should use to cut 3/4 plywood and melamine with a 3/8 bit or 1/2 compression?



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    Default Re: Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos

    Hi matth,
    That's for NEMA34. On that gear box, no spring used so that force may push pinion not the same strength at different place on rack.



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    Default Re: Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos

    Quote Originally Posted by asuratman View Post
    Hi matth,
    That's for NEMA34. On that gear box, no spring used so that force may push pinion not the same strength at different place on rack.
    I am aware. My racks will be precision located in relation to the linear guides so it should not be an issue.



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    Default Re: Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankmali17 View Post
    Gerry,
    How many kw servo would you say I should use to cut 3/4 plywood and melamine with a 3/8 bit or 1/2 compression?
    A 1/2" Compression cutter needs to cut very fast to have any real tool life (i.e. 600IPM+ cuts).
    This will require a heavy and stiff machine so I'd of thought you'd be looking at least at dual 750W motors on the X.
    But i'm no expert!



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    Default Re: Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos

    Quote Originally Posted by NIC 77 View Post
    Leadshine 1000W AC Servo Motor

    For the next few days I will be very busy with some family commitments, so it will be a while before I can get back to you, but if you want to see my graphs, can do it just won't happen in the next few days and I need some more info.

    Also, I can't really say as far as using peak torque for acceleration. It depends on the geometry of what you're cutting. I can give you graphs that include peak and continuous, and it's up to you to make that judgement call, because I don't know.

    Looks like you're about to make something pretty fantastic.
    Thanks Nic, there's no rush as I'm really busy with work at the moment.
    I will attempt to get all the figures for you over the next week or so and post them up.

    The point of this build is to avoid spending upwards of 100K on a commercial machine that still won't be optimized for fast but light engraving etc.
    Hopefully it's going to turn out well.



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    Default Re: Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos

    Quote Originally Posted by matth View Post
    A 1/2" Compression cutter needs to cut very fast to have any real tool life (i.e. 600IPM+ cuts).
    This will require a heavy and stiff machine so I'd of thought you'd be looking at least at dual 750W motors on the X.
    But i'm no expert!
    It depends on the machine, but I'd agree, that 750w would be the minimum.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos

    Quote Originally Posted by matth View Post
    Thanks Nic, there's no rush as I'm really busy with work at the moment.
    I will attempt to get all the figures for you over the next week or so and post them up.
    No problems. It may take me a while to get to it once I have the info.

    It looks like the large pulley is made from stamped steel that is welded together? If it is easy to disassemble, then you could just give me the weights of each of the pulleys and the connecting rod and pinion, and I can figure out an estimate based on the dimensions in the drawing you posted.

    Or I can just assume the pulleys are solid aluminum and make an estimate that way. It would probably be close enough.

    Really, the pinion effective radius is what I need to know for X and Y graphs, and also if the link I posted was to the correct motor. The continuous torque is off a bit from what you mentioned before from the one in the link. Otherwise I need a link with a torque vs speed graph and a rotor inertia.

    If you haven't decided on a pinion radius, I can do a few graphs to show you the differences. If you have a couple options, you can let me know what they are.

    For the weight estimates, I can just throw down some different colours on the graphs, say 600 lbs, 800 lbs, and 1000 lbs, on the X, and 250lbs, 300lbs, and 350lbs on the Y. Probably those ranges will let you know where you're at approximately when you figure out your weights.

    For the Z axis, I'll need all the info I mentioned before. Looks like you have a 10mm lead ballscrew? The Z might be the weak link. Probably the only time you'll hear me say that 5mm lead might be better, but that is only because you are using a 400W servo capable of higher speeds. Are you planning on using gear reduction there? IMO, you will absolutely need to counterbalance your Z. Forgive me if I missed it, but have you already designed a pneumatic counterbalance? Is your design entirely finished or are you still working out some details? If you are debating gear reduction on the Z you can let me know, and I can make a couple graphs for you with or without, including counterbalancing, or not, might help with your decisions.

    I've been asking questions about the subject of pneumatic counterbalancing in my own thread here:

    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/mechan...44106-cnc.html



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    Default Re: Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos

    So this is still a live project. I can't believe how fast this year has gone by.
    Hopefully there will be some progress within the next couple of weeks. The fabricator should be welding up the base (everything in pink below).
    The base will be supporting the main frame (in green) which will be machined and then bolted and shimmed.
    The base is made out of 250mmx150mm RHS mostly 8mm but there is some 12mm in there as well and will weigh approx 2 Tons (4400Lbs) with the frame weighing another 500Kgs (1100Lbs).

    Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos-base-jpg

    After caving in on the bigger servos I thought why not go the whole way and ordered some matching planetary gearboxes which are on their way at the moment.
    This is going to be a bit of a beast of a machine !



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    Default Re: Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos

    Keep up the Build... :-)
    We are curiously watching how it will come together.. and for feedback about how well the various components are going to be working out

    Good Luck :-)



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    Default Re: Heavy steel build, ATC, R&P, Servos

    Quote Originally Posted by Frankmali17 View Post
    Keep up the Build... :-)
    We are curiously watching how it will come together.. and for feedback about how well the various components are going to be working out

    Good Luck :-)
    Thanks Frank, I really want to get some progress posted up but we are currently in our busiest period trying to get all our Christmas orders cut and out the door. I'll have a bit more time in the new year to put into the build and with the fabricators putting the base frame together then hopefully the machine should start coming together.
    I'm hoping to have the router up and running by the middle of 2018 so it can be producing product for the second half of next year.



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