New Machine Build 4'x8' RouteBot


Page 1 of 10 1234 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 181

Thread: 4'x8' RouteBot

  1. #1
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    102
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default 4'x8' RouteBot

    We have been working on the RouteBot CNC for a long time and we are just about ready to start ordering components and building within the next week or so, do you guys see any problems with the design that we may have overlooked?

    We plan on using Hiwin linear guides mounted to Misumi precision ground extrusions which are then mounted to the steel table. The gantry is a 6" I-Beam also with Misumi precision ground extrusions and Hiwin slides. And Yes we're painting the RouteBot sublime green (paint code FJ5)

    Let us know any suggestions ect...as we look forward to documenting this build.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 4'x8' RouteBot-routebot1-jpg   4'x8' RouteBot-routebot2-jpg   4'x8' RouteBot-routebot3-jpg   4'x8' RouteBot-routebot4-jpg  

    4'x8' RouteBot-routebot5-jpg   4'x8' RouteBot-routebot6-jpg   4'x8' RouteBot-routebot7-jpg  
    [url]www.routebot.com[/url]


  2. #2
    Member ger21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Shelby Township
    Posts
    35538
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    3 things.
    1) what are the gantry sides made of? They look too thin. You'll probably see side to side flexing.

    2) I'd use 6 legs, as you'll get sagging in the middle of the table

    3) The extrusions are only as straight as what they're bolted to, so you'll need to either get the steel milled flat, or carefully shim the extrusions when bolting them to the steel.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  3. #3
    Registered
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    590
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    I don't know whether you're using a steel or an aluminum I beam for your gantry but I beam flanges are often slightly twisted and hence neither planar individually nor parallel between themselves. I believe you would have better luck using a box section to achieve these qualities.

    Chris



  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    canada
    Posts
    853
    Downloads
    4
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    It may be just a rendering issue (or my eyes/brain are out of step) but is there something odd with the left-side frame top in image 5?

    Paul Rowntree
    Vectric Gadgets, WarpDriver, StandingWave and Topo available at PaulRowntree.weebly.com


  5. #5
    Member ger21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Shelby Township
    Posts
    35538
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRowntree View Post
    It may be just a rendering issue (or my eyes/brain are out of step) but is there something odd with the left-side frame top in image 5?
    It's an optical illusion. When I went back and looked, it appeared that the top of the tube was invisible. But it's not. It gets obscured about half way back by the linear rail and bearing blocks.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  6. #6
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    102
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default RouteBot

    Hi Gerry, Thanks for taking a look:
    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    1) what are the gantry sides made of? They look too thin. You'll probably see side to side flexing.
    We plan on using 1/2" thick steel plate. I don't think it will flex but weight could be a concern we need to look further into as the gantry will be a little over 100lbs if we go with the W6x9 i-beam.

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    2) I'd use 6 legs, as you'll get sagging in the middle of the table
    We can add some middle support legs.

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    3) The extrusions are only as straight as what they're bolted to, so you'll need to either get the steel milled flat, or carefully shim the extrusions when bolting them to the steel.
    Correct, we plan on shimming the extrusions to the steel table. Do you think it would be better to just bolt the linear rail / R&P (moore gear) directly to the steel table? If so we know we'll spend quality time shimming the linear rails to the table - Colin

    [url]www.routebot.com[/url]


  7. #7
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    102
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default RouteBot

    Quote Originally Posted by OCNC View Post
    I don't know whether you're using a steel or an aluminum I beam for your gantry but I beam flanges are often slightly twisted and hence neither planar individually nor parallel between themselves. I believe you would have better luck using a box section to achieve these qualities.

    Chris
    Hi Chris, I know this may be a problem we worried about, the plan was to have the steel mill or a precision machine shop cut the W6x9 i-beams but understand it may not be possible, if that's the case your right we'll use 6"x4" steel tubing - Colin

    [url]www.routebot.com[/url]


  8. #8
    Registered
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    388
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Nice work and rendering! Clean design. I like the green. Using profile rail, I'm assuming you'd like the machine to be stiff? If so, these suggestions would make a big difference:
    - Definitely use a tube for the gantry. Think of pushing on the cutter in the x (long) direction -- that puts the gantry crossmember in torsion. I-beams have great bending stiffness but are very flexy in torsion. Tubes rock. I'd use an aluminum tube as they lighter and straighter than welded steel tube, so the rail can sit flatter. 8x8x1/4" alum is about right for a stiff 5' gantry. If steel, 4x8x3/16" or 6x6x3/16" are pretty equivalent for torsional stiffness (but heavier).
    - Use 2 bearings per rail for the z-axis, and separate the bearings by at least 4". Those single long bearings aren't very stiff for bending.
    - For gantry sides that are both lighter and stiffer, add lateral bracing and use alum plate. Or use rect tubes.
    - Diagonalize the lower frame in the long dimension, and drop the lower perimeter frame closer to the floor. That will minimize shaking during accel. (For the middle leg, whether an actual leg or just the short piece in there now, bolt it to the main x rect tube; welding to the middle of a tube would distort it.)

    David Malicky


  9. #9
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    102
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dmalicky View Post
    Nice work and rendering! Clean design. I like the green. Using profile rail, I'm assuming you'd like the machine to be stiff? If so, these suggestions would make a big difference:
    - Definitely use a tube for the gantry. Think of pushing on the cutter in the x (long) direction -- that puts the gantry crossmember in torsion. I-beams have great bending stiffness but are very flexy in torsion. Tubes rock. I'd use an aluminum tube as they lighter and straighter than welded steel tube, so the rail can sit flatter. 8x8x1/4" alum is about right for a stiff 5' gantry. If steel, 4x8x3/16" or 6x6x3/16" are pretty equivalent for torsional stiffness (but heavier).
    - Use 2 bearings per rail for the z-axis, and separate the bearings by at least 4". Those single long bearings aren't very stiff for bending.
    - For gantry sides that are both lighter and stiffer, add lateral bracing and use alum plate. Or use rect tubes.
    - Diagonalize the lower frame in the long dimension, and drop the lower perimeter frame closer to the floor. That will minimize shaking during accel. (For the middle leg, whether an actual leg or just the short piece in there now, bolt it to the main x rect tube; welding to the middle of a tube would distort it.)

    Thanks for the suggestions! More great ideas. I'll remove the I beam and go with a tube gantry, add bearings and fix up the frame. The reason for the I beam was because it made mounting and adjusting the Misumi extrusions (HFSP5-4080) much easier. I'll have to think about how best to mount the extrusions to the tube.

    I understand that steel beams, Aluminum beams, or any parts not machined are not straight. I don't really want to go through the epoxy bedding method. So when I found the Misumi extrusions (HFSP5-4080) that have a machined edge, I thought they could be the answer to building a better steel table router. The machined edge is oriented such that even if the extrusion is bent slightly during mounting, it will remain flat in the plane the guides are mounted. The guides will then be mounted with T-nuts, and I expect there to be enough play in the slot to make the guide rail straight even if the extrusion gets bent. That said, I would be careful to shim the extrusion as required to keep any bending at a very minimum.

    The biggest concern I have about this project is the steel welded table. Can anyone tell me if welding the table is okay? I have read conflicting comments about the metal creeping over time and the table going out of square. I would like to hear about any possible issues before I move forward.

    Once I make the changes I'll post a new rendering. I'll try to get rid of the reflections this time. It's making the details hard to see. The sublime green fj5 is the old Mopar muscle car color. I'm glad you like it!

    [url]www.routebot.com[/url]


  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Flagstaff,AZ
    Posts
    304
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Have you considered using a large Misumi extrusion like 80 X 160 or 90 X 180, or even 100 X 200 for the beam? It's a little pricey but makes mounting everything easy. Here's mine, it's smaler than yours but very rigid-

    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/cnc_wo...iso30_atc.html



  11. #11
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    102
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kevincnc View Post
    Have you considered using a large Misumi extrusion like 80 X 160 or 90 X 180, or even 100 X 200 for the beam? It's a little pricey but makes mounting everything easy. Here's mine, it's smaler than yours but very rigid-

    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/cnc_wo...iso30_atc.html

    That's an awesome machine! It's nice to see what a build looks like when you don't cut any corners. I hope you will post a video of it running.

    I called Misumi and a 100 X 200 X 1850 is $559.44. It is expensive, but would solve a lot of problems. I'll see if anyone else has extrusions in that size. I don't know if it's necessary, but they won't machine large extrusions. Will it be straight enough with my 6 ft. wide gantry?

    I like how your machine is built with extrusions. Would I be better off doing the same? Is my table too big for that? The overall size is 10 ft. X 6 ft.

    [url]www.routebot.com[/url]


  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Flagstaff,AZ
    Posts
    304
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RouteBot View Post
    That's an awesome machine! It's nice to see what a build looks like when you don't cut any corners. I hope you will post a video of it running.

    I called Misumi and a 100 X 200 X 1850 is $559.44. It is expensive, but would solve a lot of problems. I'll see if anyone else has extrusions in that size. I don't know if it's necessary, but they won't machine large extrusions. Will it be straight enough with my 6 ft. wide gantry?

    I like how your machine is built with extrusions. Would I be better off doing the same? Is my table too big for that? The overall size is 10 ft. X 6 ft.
    Thanks, I'll post a video for sure. To be honest I don't think you need to use the machined extrusion at all for a router. It is very straight as-is. With a 3 ft precision straigt-edge, I don't see a gap anywhere. There was a little twist on the 80X160 but I was able to take that out as shown in my thread. If you use 80 X 160, 72" would be about $210. Like I said mine is very rigid, but it's 18" shorter than yours will be. Since deflection is a function of length^2, it may not be rigid enough for you.

    I think your steel frame will be fine, and a lot less expensive than an aluminum one if you're welding it yourself.



  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1955
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Bosch also makes large extrusions like that - but also pretty pricey.

    Pouring self- leveling epoxy does not have to be that tough of an experience. If you build a sort of "bridge" that allows both sides of the X axis to be in the same pour, then the whole thing will level out quite accurately. In addition, if it still is not level "enough" you can always do a second pour.

    If you are using a lot of steel tube, you can get it made more accurately and stress relieved. That is why you see such nice, graceful, nearly perfect steel tube in airports, and all that left over stuff for the rest of us.



  14. #14
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    102
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Here are pictures of the gantry with the I beam replaced with a Misumi 100 x 200 x 1850 extrusion. The risers are now 1' thick aluminum plate with 1" thick vertical supports. Still working on the rest!

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 4'x8' RouteBot-table_render_f5-jpg   4'x8' RouteBot-table_render_f2-jpg  
    [url]www.routebot.com[/url]


  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Flagstaff,AZ
    Posts
    304
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RouteBot View Post
    Here are pictures of the gantry with the I beam replaced with a Misumi 100 x 200 x 1850 extrusion. The risers are now 1' thick aluminum plate with 1" thick vertical supports. Still working on the rest!
    Looking good! Now I would double up on the y and z bearings with a little spread between them. It looks like you could reduce the size, and it would still be more rigid with 4 bearings per axis. What size are you planning to use? It looks like you have a bunch of short sections of rail joined together, is that the plan?



  16. #16
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    102
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kevincnc View Post
    Looking good! Now I would double up on the y and z bearings with a little spread between them. It looks like you could reduce the size, and it would still be more rigid with 4 bearings per axis. What size are you planning to use? It looks like you have a bunch of short sections of rail joined together, is that the plan?
    The z axis still needs to be designed. The z shown is just a quick model with the approximate size to see how it would look. So the y bearings and z bearings will get fixed when the design is done. I don't even know what ball screw to use!

    The rail model I downloaded was a short section. I hope to find rails as long as possible. The hard part about modeling this is that I don't have the parts yet. The parts shown should be close to what I end up with. The model will be updated as I purchase parts.

    I'm trying to draw this with AutoCAD 2013. I've never used it before. So this has been a challenge! My only CAD experience was at a former job using NX / Unigraphics. So this thing may be a little messed up until I get the hang of it!

    [url]www.routebot.com[/url]


  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Flagstaff,AZ
    Posts
    304
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RouteBot View Post
    The z axis still needs to be designed. The z shown is just a quick model with the approximate size to see how it would look. So the y bearings and z bearings will get fixed when the design is done. I don't even know what ball screw to use!

    The rail model I downloaded was a short section. I hope to find rails as long as possible. The hard part about modeling this is that I don't have the parts yet. The parts shown should be close to what I end up with. The model will be updated as I purchase parts.

    I'm trying to draw this with AutoCAD 2013. I've never used it before. So this has been a challenge! My only CAD experience was at a former job using NX / Unigraphics. So this thing may be a little messed up until I get the hang of it!
    I feel your pain, I used Autocad for 3D before getting Inventor. Solidworks is a miracle compared to ACAD. For the Z ballscrew you'll want a short lead that won't backdrive from the weight of your spindle unless you use a brake. You can also use a counterbalance, spring, or air cylinder to help hold it up. What spindle are you planning on?



  18. #18
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    102
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kevincnc View Post
    I feel your pain, I used Autocad for 3D before getting Inventor. Solidworks is a miracle compared to ACAD. For the Z ballscrew you'll want a short lead that won't backdrive from the weight of your spindle unless you use a brake. You can also use a counterbalance, spring, or air cylinder to help hold it up. What spindle are you planning on?

    I think it's time to start ordering parts. The gantry should be really sturdy with the new design and the welded table can be modified as required. I would like to draw the Z axis but that's hard to do with out knowing exactly what parts to assemble.

    I plan to use profile guides on everything, a 3 - 4 HP spindle, a high quality ball screw on the z, and power it all with servos. If anyone has suggestions on what and where to find this stuff I would love to hear your ideas.

    I started looking into servos. However, I have no idea what size and drivers to go with. I would like to use mid to high end components. I'll have way too much time in this thing to have it fall apart. If you know of a deal please let me know!

    [url]www.routebot.com[/url]


  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Flagstaff,AZ
    Posts
    304
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RouteBot View Post
    I think it's time to start ordering parts. The gantry should be really sturdy with the new design and the welded table can be modified as required. I would like to draw the Z axis but that's hard to do with out knowing exactly what parts to assemble.

    I plan to use profile guides on everything, a 3 - 4 HP spindle, a high quality ball screw on the z, and power it all with servos. If anyone has suggestions on what and where to find this stuff I would love to hear your ideas.

    I started looking into servos. However, I have no idea what size and drivers to go with. I would like to use mid to high end components. I'll have way too much time in this thing to have it fall apart. If you know of a deal please let me know!
    What's your budget?



  20. #20
    Registered
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    102
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kevincnc View Post
    What's your budget?

    I hope to keep it under $9,000.00. This stuff adds up quick! The idea is to build a router that's better than a Shopbot for less money.

    [url]www.routebot.com[/url]


Page 1 of 10 1234 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


About CNCzone.com

    We are the largest and most active discussion forum for manufacturing industry. The site is 100% free to join and use, so join today!

Follow us on


Our Brands

4'x8' RouteBot

4'x8' RouteBot