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  1. #61
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zygoat View Post
    brass would scare me a little, its soo soft.
    But it's harder than the phenolic or epoxy. I'm only going to mount the rails once, with Loctite. I don't think I can strip a M4 thread with about 1/2" engagement. IT doesn't need to be all that tight.

    Quote Originally Posted by RomanLini View Post
    4mm is a very fine thread for semi-cured epoxy! I would be worried about the threads failing. The brass inserts might be a good choice, or maybe those 4-spiked steel nuts they use in wooden speaker cabinets that go in the other side?
    I was going to use the T-Nuts, but they'd interfere with some other screws coming from the top.

    I ordered the brass hex spacers, and components for the home switches.

    What I'm going to do, is counterbore the holes from the back, up to the phenolic.I'll then thread the SHCS's into the threaded portion of the phenolic, which is about 3/16". From the backside, I'll screw the spacers onto the screws, with a little sealant on the bottom to keep the epoxy out. Then I'll fill the counterbores with epoxy. This way, the existing hole locations will be preserved. These were drilled while the locating ledge was machined, so everything is perfect right now.
    I think any other method may have had a chance for the hole locations to move slightly, and the clearance in the rail holes is very tight, only .5mm total.

    I'm pretty sure the existing threads would have been fine, as I was able to get them very tight when I test mounted the rails. But this way guarantees they won't come off.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  2. #62
    Registered Zygoat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    But it's harder than the phenolic or epoxy. I'm only going to mount the rails once, with Loctite. I don't think I can strip a M4 thread with about 1/2" engagement. IT doesn't need to be all that tight.
    yea, thats a good point. i thought about that too. i dont know about you, but i never manage to get away with only doing things once.

    your probably right tho, should be fine. im anxious to see how it turns out.



  3. #63
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    Sounds like a good method.



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    Ger,

    Your parts look absolutely gorgeous! I will have to keep a closer eye on your stuff. It all happens so fast.

    Cheers!

    Rob



  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by spoiledbrat View Post
    It all happens so fast.
    Nobody's ever told me that before.

    I had some minor hand surgery in January that put a hold on things. Then I finished up a vacuum frame press that I needed to make some extra rigid panels. Then it got warm and I'm swamped with yard work.

    But I hope to get back to working on this very soon.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  6. #66
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    Default More changes

    Looks like another year has gone by with no progress.
    Working 6 days a week all some hasn't left me much free time. Now that we're getting caught up, and the weather is getting nice again, I can hopefully get back to work.

    After going back and forth for the last 3 years on spindle choice, I've finally decided to go the Chinese spindle route.
    There are a couple benefits.
    1) Everything is more compact, and the spindle centerline is a bit closer to the linear bearings, so it should be more rigid.
    2) Because I have much more area for spindle clamps, I can simplify my design substantially, making it much easier to build. The old design was a bit complex.
    3)This one is huge. With the old design, I need to mount the bearing blocks from the back side, where there was next to no clearance. I had an idea on how I was going to do it, but didn't really know if it would work OK.
    Now, I have room to bolt them on from the front side, which makes it about as simple as it could be.

    I'm going to make the spindle clamps from 3/4" aluminum, so they won't be as bulky as the plywood one was. I got the aluminum yesterday. I just need to order some tube fittings from McMaster Carr to make sure I get all my holes the right size for my air coolant lines.

    I need to go with a larger (wider) e-chain for the Z axis, so it's a good thing I didn't order it before. The reason is that I need to run water lines to the spindles now.

    I don't really want to run 4 water lines, so I'm going to run the coolant to the spindles in series. Since only one will be running at a time, I don't see any issues.
    I am concerned a little about the flow rate and restriction in the spindles, so I'm thinking of using two pumps. A main pump at the reservoir, and a smaller inline pump between the spindles? Anyone have any thoughts on that? When I get the spindles, I plan on drilling and re-tapping the top cap to allow me to use 3/8" ID tubing, to minimize any restrictions. Off the top of my head, I'm guessing the run will be 40-50 ft??

    I hope to get back to cutting parts in the next week or two. Here's a few pics of what I have planned, showing how much smaller the new design is.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Z²-2_2_top-jpg   Z²-2_2_side-jpg   Z²-2_2_iso-jpg  
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  7. #67
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    The aluminum parts look like they give a cleaner look, and am sure the compactness will help with stiffness. Plus it might better survive the crazy accels you're planning.

    As for the water lines, maybe running a larger pump with a Y fitting and valves or make a mini manifold (maybe even solenoid valves that turn on with the router, similar to zoned heating) would be an option.



  8. #68
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    This should be plenty of pump. Swiftech



  9. #69
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    The other day I was looking for some vinyl tubing, 3/8"ID, 1/2" OD, that can handle more than 25psi. McMaster didn't have any unless you paid $2-$3/ft.
    I looked on Ebay, and the cheap stuff there says it's rated at 45-50psi.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  10. #70
    Registered Falcon69's Avatar
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    you can also try FrozenCPU.com. They have tubing for 2.50 per ft. Little spendy, but that's the price for the 1/2 ID 3/4 OD

    Gerry, which spindle did you go with? And I'm guessing you're getting a hitachi VFD?

    I may be purchasing mine this fall. I'm thinking of going with the chineses 4kw 5hp spindle, then getting a 10hp Hitachi VFD and run it on single phase 220v. I don't have 3-Phase where the machine will be set-up.

    I'll be watching this thread. I too plan on running a water cooled spindle now, and like you, I'm worried that there won't be enough pressure from the pump to push the flow 35+ ft.

    The pump I plan on getting is rated at 317g/ph. Similar to the one that FannBlade posted. But, with that rating, I still think you'll need more pressure than what it's rated at as well to push it that far?



  11. #71
    Registered Falcon69's Avatar
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    Oh, and Gerry, This is the first time seeing this thread, and I can't help but to noticed you've named your machine Z². I hope you don't feel offended, I had planned on naming mine X² before I even noticed yours. Louieatienza mentioned in my thread that he thought he had seen my logo before . I even have the logo drawn up and everything, as well as the circuit boards with the logo too. I'd hate to change it now. I like it too much. :P



  12. #72
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    Right now I'm leaning towards these, but I haven't bought them yet. I need to drop about $800 for my X axis rails and e-chain first.
    I don't need any more power than the 2.2kw, and I'd like to keep the weight and size down.

    I need 1/2" OD max, or I'll need to use larger e-chains on my Z axis'. I looked at Frozen CPU, and see the same issue with regards to pressure, 25psi max.
    I'm guessing that although the pump is rated at 50psi, you don't see anywhere near that in the tubing??

    I'm guessing the cheap stuff will work, and I really don't want to spend $400 on a cooling system.

    No problem with the name, btw.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  13. #73
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    Just focusing on the water flow needs, your idea about flowing them in series is good. Even if you were running them both at the same time, in most cases, this is actually better because of the fluid velocity.

    Don't put a pump in between the spindles, it won't solve the problem any more than putting the pumps in one place back at the reservoir.

    I am not a big fan of barb fittings for liquids, but people do you them. If you do go down that path, I have had the best luck with putting a clamp on top of each connection to reduce the chance of a hose popping off.

    The pressure loss can be roughly calculated / estimated with some more info, but we can probably get close with some simple tests.

    Just for clarity:
    - What flow rate does the spindle need ? I would be surprised if it needs more than 1 - 2 gpm to work.
    - Does the spindle data sheet say anything at all about the required coolant pressure ? The reason I ask, is that this might give us a clue about how much pressure drop is in the spindle coolant lines.

    Pressure drop is much higher through fittings and 90s than through long curved tubing, so just try to avoid lots of fittings.



  14. #74
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    Keling says 20-25gal/hr. I've never seen anything about pressure requirements.
    My concern about pressure drop is in the spindles, not the tubing.

    The tubing will be clamped to the barbs, but I may go with a different type of tubing with instant fittings, but I need to research it a bit more.
    There will be no 90's, and the only fittings should be at the pump and on the spindles.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  15. #75
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    Default water supply

    gerry

    i using chinese spindle.. i think they are works very well..
    me and many-many user using simple fountain pump, that you can buy in lowes about for 20-25...
    it is sufficient..
    the hose i have on the spindle about 1/4 inner dia.. a 5 gallon bucket is plenty..
    in real hot summer migthneed to change water about3-5 hour..

    if rpm over 16K then water get warmer faster..

    the 2.2 motor need on a larger router, made for sheet.. i using rigth now a 1.5 kw... my machine is 4 feet by 6 feet

    i believe you also could deal with.. the different between 1.5 and 2.2 can be 2-300 dollar..

    what you see on ebay several seller i beleieve those comes from one manufacturing plant..
    when you order sure tell them you have 115volt, or 2x110, or any other.. so inverter be matched to your power..
    from kelingic you can get wired together and setting rigth the inverter..

    your machine made slow because you giving alot help around.. and that takes also a lot time..

    best regard
    viktor



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    on picture you see fittings they are working very well...
    on the pump have a brass insert made out as it hold the hose without clamp.. but you can put on something sure it doesnt comes off

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Z²-fittings-jpg  


  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by victorofga View Post
    gerry

    the hose i have on the spindle about 1/4 inner dia.. a 5 gallon bucket is plenty..
    in real hot summer migthneed to change water about3-5 hour..

    if rpm over 16K then water get warmer faster..

    your machine made slow because you giving alot help around.. and that takes also a lot time..

    best regard
    viktor

    That's why I plan on using a reservoir, 400ml, and using a radiator equipped with 3 140mm fans. I won't ever have to change water, but maybe every 6 months to a year. I am thinking of maybe going with 1/2" ID tubing, just for the waterflow. I will have fittings at the spindle, pump, radiator, reservoir, and will be using quick disconnects at the control box, which will house the pump, reservoir, and radiator. This will be good, just in case I have to move the machine. I can disconnect it from control box without the water leaking everywhere. Here are the disconnects, FrozenCPU also sells them.

    A May also purchase a water block for the CPU and run that in the watercooling system also.

    I've added links to what I'm talking about, just click em.

    Yes, Gerry spends alot of time on the forums helping people. Good guy.



  18. #78
    Registered Falcon69's Avatar
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    FYI,

    FrozenCpu has barb fittings, as well as compression fittings. Barbs should be good enough, as long as you have clamps on them, but the compression fittings looks so much nicer, imo.



  19. #79
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    I am thinking of maybe going with 1/2" ID tubing, just for the waterflow
    I've never seen one, but from the pictures I've seen, it doesn't look like there's enough room to get a big enough fitting to take advantage of the 1/2" tubing. I'm guessing that 1/8"NPT threads are about as big as you can go??

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  20. #80
    Registered Falcon69's Avatar
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    Frozen CPU has G1/4" and G3/8". So they offer tubing all the way to 1/2" ID tubing.



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