ShopDroid [custom sized]

[zool]

And make sure its a spare blank one, hide the real one lol

Thanks for all the insights and suggestions. I gotta tell ya though, the ones from Louis are MORE than enough.

[zool]

On Monday ordered:

1. Gecko G540 and power supply

2. Soigeneris EZ-G540 [beats soldering and figuring resistors]

3. Soigeneris G540 Passive Heat Sink [easier than building mount for cooling fans]


Jeff Birt [Soigeneris.com] shipped items 2 and 3 Monday afternoon.

Paul Henrick [Deepgrove1] will probably ship G540 and power supply tomorrow [Wednesday].

Rockcliff kindly took back both their boards for inspection, and repair, if needed.

And while trying to figuring out which direction to go [other than around in a circle], I spent time cleaning and straightening up my studio. Seeing all that clean floor space is odd .. I am not sure seeing a lot of clean floor space is healthy.

[zool]

Received:

Soigeneris EZ-G540 [beats soldering and figuring resistors]

Soigeneris G540 Passive Heat Sink [easier than building mount for cooling fans]

Look better in person; good quality, and fit and finish.

[zool]

Brace for long Y-axis has been designed by TuslaTurbo. Will be cut and shipped soon.

[zool]

Purchased Gecko G540.

Purchased EZ-G540 - Set of 4

Everything is soldered and wired. Checked and doubled checked.

Followed Gecko G540 installation instructions step-by-step.

Got green light on G540 without parallel port cable hooked up.

Reconfigured MACH3 [latest release]

Slaved Axis is set for Y and A to be slaved.

Still the same problem!; that is: The Y/A motors function as before; that is: When using MACH jog screen to move in positive direction [away from home], they are in synch. When moving in negative direction [toward home] the Y motor moves in negative direction, the A motor moves in positive direction.

Tried different cable. No dice.

Tried all three parallel ports. No dice.

Tried every combination of checks in the boxes on Ports and Pin screen and on Homing/Limits screen for the Y motor and A motor. No dice.

The question then is this: Why will the A-motor only move in positive direction, irrespective of the various combinations of configurations?

Plus now have additional issue: Z-axis motor began humming loudly during all this. Odder still, the humming is not consistent on the four sides of the motor, it is loudest on one side, and hums softer on one of the other sides, two other sides are about the same.

Any ideas?

[NIC 77]

I am absolutely not an expert on this.

Have you tried plugging the A motor into the Y plug and the Y motor into the A plug of your electronics box? Can you do that or are you hardwired throughout? It looks like you've done everything but this.

If the Y motor then only moves in a positive direction then you know it's probably not your motors / cables.

If however the A motor still behaves the same when plugged into the Y plug then you know it's something wrong with the motor / cable and not your software or computer.

As far as the humming, I'm curious, do you have resistors wired in and if so where? OK, I see you're using the soigeneris products. Hmmm...don't know.

Do you have another computer you can try?

[zool]

I am absolutely not an expert on this.

Hey that makes two of us .. isn't this blind leading the blind!!!

Have you tried plugging the A motor into the Y plug and the Y motor into the A plug of your electronics box? Can you do that or are you hardwired throughout? It looks like you've done everything but this.

If the Y motor then only moves in a positive direction then you know it's probably not your motors / cables.

If however the A motor still behaves the same when plugged into the Y plug then you know it's something wrong with the motor / cable and not your software or computer.

Ger21 suggested this. Went back to studio, tried it. No luck. Also, had checked out the A-motor by switching it with X-motor during the first go around. No change after that either.

As far as the humming, I'm curious, do you have resistors wired in and if so where? OK, I see you're using the soigeneris products. Hmmm...don't know.

Haven't done the G540 "tuning" yet .. maybe it will disappear after that.

Do you have another computer you can try?

Mind reader .. going to set another one up tonight. Hope this works as I cannot figure what else it could be.

And to think, I was within inches of buying a K2 CNC Router, but instead said to myself: "How hard could it be to build another one!"

And .. I would have GLADLY missed all this fun!

[zool]

It finally works, after six-weeks of tinkering, consternation, and forum searching.

Replace original computer [Dell 2400 with XP] an IBM Think Station with Windows 2000. The IBM was the studio design computer. Brought it to home studio [no internet at other studio]; updated Windows 2000 and everything else; cleaned up hard drive; removed some software that was no longer used; disk defragmented; and installed latest version of MACH3. MACH runs off parallel port on motherboard

Replaced A-stepper motor; replaced existing G540-to-stepper cabling with cabling known to work [off Z-axis]; replaced both junction boxes at each end of cabling; replaced parallel port cables with another one [BELKIN with pins on both ends]; removed gender changer on G540.

And it works. I do not care how or why, it works, and I ain't touchin' it!!!

Thank you so much for all your help Gerry [Ger21].

[NIC 77]

aaaaarrrrrrggghhhh. LOL!

I was really curious to see if it was the computer or the motor that was the problem, but you went ahead and replaced them both. Guess I'll never know.

I'm curious though, why did you change the stepper motor and cabling after your previous tests?

Would it be too much to ask for you to put the old motor back on the A axis to see if it still works?

I'm joking about the last part.

I'm glad it's working for you.

Sorry if this was already answered, but why are you using Windows 2000? My machine is going to have a stand alone computer not attached to the internet, so if there's a good reason perhaps I should consider this instead of XP.

[zool]

Sorry if this was already answered, but why are you using Windows 2000? My machine is going to have a stand alone computer not attached to the internet, so if there's a good reason perhaps I should consider this instead of XP.

The reason I use Windows 2000 is that is what the voices in my head told me to do.

[louieatienza]

Glad to see you didn't throw in the towel! Now it's time to make something!

[zool]

Eventually all of us want to make something with the CNC machines we build.

In rambling around the internet, found this: Open Source CNC Toolpathing Workflow

All the programs in this Instructable are open source [free]. This shows how to take a raster file [image made of pixels] to a vector file [image made of lines] to g-code to running the g-code.

[zool]

The primary question: Given the below Facts and Circumstances, are limit switches and/or home switches necessary? [Please note the “and/or”.]

Secondarily and concurrently: Given that this build is with rack-and-pinion drives, and given that set-ups are to be centered about fixtures and auto tool zeroing of all three axes, would home switches even be needed to align the Y/A-axis? [And I do recognize that there may or may not be a linkage between the rack-and-pinion drives; the fixturing and auto tool zeroing; and aligning the Y/A-axis. ]

I have researched this here on CNC Zone and on the web, and opinions are all over the map. [Surprise!! Surprise!!] Despite this research, a clear and definitive conclusion has not been evident from the research as there appears to be a lack of a clearly defined basis for some of the opinions. Also, the most significant reason for this lack of clarity may be: I just may not totally understand!!

Hence, for whatever reason, I find myself on the fence.

One sided of my mind goes: Just put the limit and/or home switches in and then it is done. Better safe than sorry. If they are not put in now, later they will be needed [as always happens] and then production stops to put them in. This will not make you happy as you will have to add yet another chapter to your encyclopedia of errors.

The other side of my mind goes: Why waste the time and effort as the fixtures and auto tool zeroing on all three axes negate the need for limit switches and/or home switches. [Please note the “and/or”.]

And ya, it is tough being me!! [All these voices ..... ]


The Facts and Circumstances:

I am in the final process of installing cable chains from UGRACNC.

Cable Carrier 18 x 25mm | CABLE MANAGEMENT | ELECTRONIC COMPONENTS | UGRAcnc.com AND Cable Carrier 18 x 25mm | CABLE MANAGEMENT | ELECTRONIC COMPONENTS | UGRAcnc.com

and trays for them. Photos soon.

As I am thinking about wiring [actually rewiring!!] the motors and controller, obviously thoughts of limit switches and/or home switches arise. [Please note the “and/or”.]

This is the genesis of the questions: The work area of the ShopDroid is 54-inches by 74-inches, which is large as the intended use is to cut pieces for furniture [no sheet goods], AND, based on my experiences with my small CNC router, this requires creative fixturing.

Auto tool zeroing for the X, Y and Z-axes will be installed to make fixturing set-ups efficient.

Soft limits within MACH3 will be used. These have worked well on the small CNC router even though it does have wired limit switches and homes switches.


Suggestions and experiences, and the basis thereof, are hereby solicited and appreciated.

[louieatienza]

The primary question: Given the below Facts and Circumstances, are limit switches and/or home switches necessary? [Please note the “and/or”.]

Secondarily and concurrently: Given that this build is with rack-and-pinion drives, and given that set-ups are to be centered about fixtures and auto tool zeroing of all three axes, would home switches even be needed to align the Y/A-axis? [And I do recognize that there may or may not be a linkage between the rack-and-pinion drives; the fixturing and auto tool zeroing; and aligning the Y/A-axis. ]

I have researched this here on CNC Zone and on the web, and opinions are all over the map. [Surprise!! Surprise!!] Despite this research, a clear and definitive conclusion has not been evident from the research as there appears to be a lack of a clearly defined basis for some of the opinions. Also, the most significant reason for this lack of clarity may be: I just may not totally understand!!

Hence, for whatever reason, I find myself on the fence.

One sided of my mind goes: Just put the limit and/or home switches in and then it is done. Better safe than sorry. If they are not put them in now, later they will be needed [as always happens] and then production stops to put them in. This will not make you happy as you will have to add yet another chapter to your encyclopedia of errors.

The other side of my mind goes: Why waste the time and effort as the fixtures and auto tool zeroing on all three axes negate the need for limit switches and/or home switches. [Please note the “and/or”.]

And ya, it is tough being me!! [All these voices ..... ]


The Facts and Circumstances:

I am in the final process of installing cable chains from UGRACNC.

Cable Carrier 18 x 25mm | CABLE MANAGEMENT | ELECTRONIC COMPONENTS | UGRAcnc.com AND Cable Carrier 18 x 25mm | CABLE MANAGEMENT | ELECTRONIC COMPONENTS | UGRAcnc.com

and trays for them. Photos soon.

As I am thinking about wiring [actually rewiring!!] the motors and controller, obviously thoughts of limit switches and/or home switches arise. [Please note the “and/or”.]

This is the genesis of the questions: The work area of the ShopDroid is 54-inches by 74-inches, which is large as the intended use is to cut pieces for furniture [no sheet goods], AND, based on my experiences with my small CNC router, this requires creative fixturing.

Auto tool zeroing for the X, Y and Z-axes will be installed to make fixturing set-ups efficient.

Soft limits within MACH3 will be used. These have worked well on the small CNC router even though it does have wired limit switches and homes switches.


Suggestions and experiences, and the basis thereof, are hereby solicited and appreciated.

I would say "Yes", especially being of your custom furniture background, where a detailed carving can take the good part of a whole day to machine. Let's say your steppers stalled during a cut. Unless you can manually re-establish 0,0,0 exactly, you're pretty much up a creek without a paddle. With home switches, the machine would be able to re-reference 0,0,0 and you could start the program where you left off. Probably a lot easier to set soft limits with home switches I reckon. And as helmsworthlad pointed out to me (where's he been) with home switches you can set up work offsets in Mach3 easily, so if you have for example a section with vertical clamping for dovetails, for example, you can set that work offset up so you don't have to do it every time...

That said, I haven't yet installed them on my machine, and I've made a few pieces of firewood this way. I have made jigs with crosshairs, that allow me to re-zero the machine in case of a mishap, but my eyes I'm sure are not as accurate as a Hall-effect sensor or microswitch (yet, going in for Steve Austin [Lee Majors in Six Million Dollar Man, not the Stone Cold guy] surgery soon...)

[zool]

Louis stated: With home switches, the machine would be able to re-reference 0,0,0 and you could start the program where you left off. Probably a lot easier to set soft limits with home switches I reckon. And as helmsworthlad pointed out to me (where's he been) with home switches you can set up work offsets in Mach3 easily, so if you have for example a section with vertical clamping for dovetails, for example, you can set that work offset up so you don't have to do it every time...

The above bought this AH HA!! moment:

The reason for my confusion/indecision is that I did not differentiate MACHINE 0,0,0 from WORK OFFSETS 0,0,0, and therefore did not see the various beneficial interrelationships between them that will make set-ups easier under all conditions, most especially those that begin under catastrophic circumstances.

Thanks Louis

[ger21]

Let's say your steppers stalled during a cut. Unless you can manually re-establish 0,0,0 exactly, you're pretty much up a creek without a paddle.

When all it takes is a blink of the eye for a part to be ruined, I wouldn't count on home switches saving a part that's already been damaged.

Now if it stalls outside a cut, or you want to stop and restart in the middle, or cut 1/2 today, and half tomorrow, then home switches come in handy.

On the big machines I program and run in my day job, there are no work offsets (not really usable in a high production environment,) and no zeroing to the part. These machines have pop up locating pins to place you part at 0,0 every time.

My home machine is set up similarly. I have locating fences at X zero and Y zero. I turn on the machine, home it, place the part against the fence, and cut.

With this method, my X and Y work offsets are always 0,0.

Say you have a permanently mounted 4th axis somewhere on your machine. Set up an offset, say, G55, for 4th axis work. Just Home, and call G55, and you're ready to go.

Home switches make lots of things easier. If you know how to take advantage of them.

As for limit switches, that's a different story.

Do you need limit switches?

If your machine has enough power to damage itself from a crash or overtravel, then yes, you do.

If you use servo's, rather than steppers, than yes, you do.

There are probably a few more circumstances that dictate their use.

I don't have any limit switches, but do use my Z home switch as a limit. For me, the most likely method of hitting the travel limits is when jogging, particularly after homing, when the machine is close to it's limits.

Why waste the time and effort as the fixtures and auto tool zeroing on all three axes negate the need for limit switches and/or home switches.

My Z axis auto zero relies on the home switch to provide a "known" location. This is critical to prevent crashing the Z into the top limit of it's travel when zeroing to vastly different material thicknesses.

[zool]

On the big machines I program and run in my day job, there are no work offsets (not really usable in a high production environment,) and no zeroing to the part. These machines have pop up locating pins to place you part at 0,0 every time.

My home machine is set up similarly. I have locating fences at X zero and Y zero. I turn on the machine, home it, place the part against the fence, and cut.

With this method, my X and Y work offsets are always 0,0.

Gerry: I've seen photos of your home machine and really like the way you have it set up. It is difficult on my Shop Droid as the home is in the far left corner, as the front of the machine is going to have a fixture to cut traditional dovetails and box joints. Plus my machine is going to be used in more of an artistic manner than in a pure production manner.

Say you have a permanently mounted 4th axis somewhere on your machine. Set up an offset, say, G55, for 4th axis work. Just Home, and call G55, and you're ready to go.

Mind reader. I am permanently mounting a 4th axis on the right side of the Droid. I dislike the thought of constantly reinstalling anything. I can't wait until I can afford another large table saw to set up with dado blades.

Home switches make lots of things easier. If you know how to take advantage of them.

As for limit switches, that's a different story.

Do you need limit switches?

If your machine has enough power to damage itself from a crash or overtravel, then yes, you do.

If you use servo's, rather than steppers, than yes, you do.

There are probably a few more circumstances that dictate their use.

I don't have any limit switches, but do use my Z home switch as a limit. For me, the most likely method of hitting the travel limits is when jogging, particularly after homing, when the machine is close to it's limits.

Oh, I am quite quite sure I never ever make a mistake like that!

My Z axis auto zero relies on the home switch to provide a "known" location. This is critical to prevent crashing the Z into the top limit of it's travel when zeroing to vastly different material thicknesses.

Excellent point.

Because of the insights and contributions of both you and Louis, home switches are definitely on the list. And just to be safe, will most likely use the Z-axis home switch as a limit switch .. not that I will ever need it..

[zool]

Moved the Droid as have been approached to make short runs of trim [baseboards, door and window trim] from antique houses and boats. Will be making a fixture so can deal with piece of material longer than seven-feet.

This was the easiest way to move the Droid.

Took more time to move other studio equipment and all the materials that were in the way, and then put them back in studio.

From the time that the truck arrived until it left was 25-minutes.

Its my friend's truck. The piece of equipment is called a Speed Crane.

handelmeister's Channel - YouTube

[zool]

After analysing the potential deflection of the Y-axis, coupled with the need for a mount for the cable tray for the e-chain, the green piece of angle iron was cut and holes were machined so that the angle iron could be mounted on the aluminum extrusion using the existing slots in the aluminum extrusion.

[zool]

These are photographs of the tray for the e-chain. Off the shelf aluminum u-channel machined to size by machinist, who also made mounts.

Other photos show installation of e-chain with cables pulled though it, and new cable connections at stepper motors. The covers enclose and protect the small wires coming out of the stepper motors.

Also in the e-chain are the cables for the home switches for the Z-axis and Y-axis. Puzzled for a while how to simply and securely mount the home switches, but finally arrived at solution. Photos to follow in a day or so.