Crazy tool vibration/chatter, can't figure out why

[canman77]

They can work as well, what they have is a voltage doubler, built in, these have 120v single phase input, and 220v 3 phase output, but you have 220v at you house, everyone has this, you have 2 Hot's and a Ground that is what you use for the input power for a 220v VFD, both legs are 120v each, if you measure across the 2 you will have 240v , there are less problems with using 220v , and half the amps needed from the supply

Be careful though, if you go with a 120v input VFD, that the spindle is still 220v 3 Phase, if you went with the 120v VFD some have a weird 120v spindle you don't these they are junk

OK so I understand that everyone's house is wired for 220v. Where I'm getting hung up now is 120v vs. 220v at the outlet. When you say two hots and a ground, does this mean I'd pull the hot from one outlet and the hot from a different outlet and connect it to the VFD, or do you mean I'd take the hot and common from one outlet? I remember reading somewhere that common will also measure 120v but I don't work with AC very often so I'm not sure.

My other concern is amperage. I don't know how many amps I'm already using in the room where I have the machine, and I'd be a little worried about hooking up the VFD to the same circuit. It wouldn't be a problem to build a 220v outlet box and hook it up to an extension cord and plug it into a different circuit.

If 220v offers better performance, I'd much rather go that route. Especially since the 120v VFD's in my budget don't have 220v output (Chinese models, basically).

[mactec54]

OK so I understand that everyone's house is wired for 220v. Where I'm getting hung up now is 120v vs. 220v at the outlet. When you say two hots and a ground, does this mean I'd pull the hot from one outlet and the hot from a different outlet and connect it to the VFD, or do you mean I'd take the hot and common from one outlet? I remember reading somewhere that common will also measure 120v but I don't work with AC very often so I'm not sure.

My other concern is amperage. I don't know how many amps I'm already using in the room where I have the machine, and I'd be a little worried about hooking up the VFD to the same circuit. It wouldn't be a problem to build a 220v outlet box and hook it up to an extension cord and plug it into a different circuit.

If 220v offers better performance, I'd much rather go that route. Especially since the 120v VFD's in my budget don't have 220v output (Chinese models, basically).

If you have an electric stove Dryer or air conditioner you will have 220v circuits, you can look at these and see how they were wired, You would be best to run a supply just for your machine, if unsure get some help from a qualified electrician

A 20 or 25 amp supply will be more than enough for your machine that's with the upgrade to the VFD

You would do this with a 4 wire cable from your Breaker Box, you need a 2 Pole Breaker like photo or to suit the type of Bus you have

Buy using a 4 wire you can then have 120v and 220v from that same supply, outlet, and split it up in your electrical cabinet, for the 120v you would use ( 1 Hot) 120v Neutral & Ground , for the 220v You use the ( 2 Hot ) 220v and Ground only

These are the best Plug & sockets/ outlets to use, as the Plug locks into the outlet

[canman77]

So the good news is the 220v circuit isn't being used. I think we may just run an extension cord up to the CNC room, so 220v actually isn't a problem. Just found that out! But if I understand you correctly, you're saying I can get 120v and 220v from the 220v circuit, allowing me to run the stepper motor supply on the 120v and the spindle on the 220v?

All that's left now is to find a good spindle/VFD. I think I may have to stick with 1.5kw, as I've heard 2.2kw may be a bit too heavy for the Chinese gantry to handle.

[mactec54]

So the good news is the 220v circuit isn't being used. I think we may just run an extension cord up to the CNC room, so 220v actually isn't a problem. Just found that out! But if I understand you correctly, you're saying I can get 120v and 220v from the 220v circuit, allowing me to run the stepper motor supply on the 120v and the spindle on the 220v?

All that's left now is to find a good spindle/VFD. I think I may have to stick with 1.5kw, as I've heard 2.2kw may be a bit too heavy for the Chinese gantry to handle.

That is correct,only if it is a 4 wire supply, then you can use it for both, if it is only 3 wire you can only use it for the 220v supply, you could always pull a neutral wire if it does not have one, then you can use it for both, you are not doing heavy duty cutting with these machines so the 1.5Kw would be a big improvement of what you have

[canman77]

Right, I'm not doing heavy cutting on this machine. Likely only wood, maybe some various plastics, and G10/other composite material. More than likely will never mill any kind of metal, other than *maybe* milling holes in aluminum enclosures.

I can't find the exact 220v outlet we have in the house, but it's similar to this:



Looks like it's a 3 wire, not a 4 wire, unless the middle hole is used (but all the diagrams I saw seemed to say it isn't used). Still should work for the VFD though...looks like there's no common on the 3-wire 220v outlets? I do like the idea of a dedicated supply for the machine, so I may pull a common line from another outlet. Is it OK to split a common line, so it still feeds the 120v outlet on the wall, but also feeds the 120v outlet for the machine supply as well as the 220v?

(I'd assume yes, since that's basically how all the common wires are connected in the house anyways, right?)

[mactec54]

Right, I'm not doing heavy cutting on this machine. Likely only wood, maybe some various plastics, and G10/other composite material. More than likely will never mill any kind of metal, other than *maybe* milling holes in aluminum enclosures.

I can't find the exact 220v outlet we have in the house, but it's similar to this:



Looks like it's a 3 wire, not a 4 wire, unless the middle hole is used (but all the diagrams I saw seemed to say it isn't used). Still should work for the VFD though...looks like there's no common on the 3-wire 220v outlets? I do like the idea of a dedicated supply for the machine, so I may pull a common line from another outlet. Is it OK to split a common line, so it still feeds the 120v outlet on the wall, but also feeds the 120v outlet for the machine supply as well as the 220v?

(I'd assume yes, since that's basically how all the common wires are connected in the house anyways, right?)

Yes that is only a 3 wire, you may be best to run a 4 wire just for your plug, you want your machine to be powered by/from ( 1 ) supply

No you can not take a Neutral white wire from another outlet, you need 4 wires from the Breaker box to make this circuit correct

[canman77]

Ah dang...still, I'm glad I'll be able to power a spindle. The problem with running a 4-wire from the breaker is that it would become a huge project to swap out the 3-wire for 4-wire. I know I could just add a neutral line to that circuit, but it wouldn't be terribly safe to run the wire up to the room on its own. If I were going to do it I'd rather put it in the wall with the rest of the wiring. So for now, I'm OK with just running a big extension cord up the wall and through the floor to that room. (For reference, the breaker is quite a ways away from the CNC room, but the 220v outlet is directly below the room)

Onto the fun stuff...which spindle would be better?

CNC 65mm ER11 1 5KW Water Cooled Motor Spindle and Drive Inverter VFD | eBay

CE HY Brand 80mm 1 5KW ER11 Water Cooled Motor Spindle and Drive Inverter VFD | eBay

Both are pretty inexpensive, and they both appear to have the 4 prong connector on the spindle. I'm just not sure what I should look for in these spindles. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[mactec54]

Ah dang...still, I'm glad I'll be able to power a spindle. The problem with running a 4-wire from the breaker is that it would become a huge project to swap out the 3-wire for 4-wire. I know I could just add a neutral line to that circuit, but it wouldn't be terribly safe to run the wire up to the room on its own. If I were going to do it I'd rather put it in the wall with the rest of the wiring. So for now, I'm OK with just running a big extension cord up the wall and through the floor to that room. (For reference, the breaker is quite a ways away from the CNC room, but the 220v outlet is directly below the room)

Onto the fun stuff...which spindle would be better?

CNC 65mm ER11 1 5KW Water Cooled Motor Spindle and Drive Inverter VFD | eBay

CE HY Brand 80mm 1 5KW ER11 Water Cooled Motor Spindle and Drive Inverter VFD | eBay

Both are pretty inexpensive, and they both appear to have the 4 prong connector on the spindle. I'm just not sure what I should look for in these spindles. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

ER11 is not that good,see if you can find a ER16 minimum collet size, and don't forget the 4 pin power connector, the bigger the diameter if the rotor may be larger also, this will give you more inertia which is good for a spindle

[canman77]

Right, so the ER16 collet versions are actually more expensive than the ER20 collet versions. And the ER20 collet versions are 2.2kw. So that would be the obvious choice. Both are 80mm diameter, and have the 4 pin power connectors.

The problem I face is weight of the spindle vs. how much weight the gantry can handle. I know the 65mm diameter spindles will be lighter, but they only come with ER11 collets. I've been talking with a guy who upgraded his Chinese machine to a 65mm 1.5kw spindle and didn't go bigger because of weight concerns. The reality is, I don't plan on doing heavy machining with this setup, so compromising on spindle size and weight might need to play a role here. I just don't know where the compromise should be.

What's the advantage of ER16/20 vs ER11?

[mactec54]

canman77

Here are ( 2 ) I don't know what price range you are looking at, ER16 you can use larger cutters, if you are happy with being only able to us 1/4" shank cutter then you would get the ER11

ER11 1/4" Shank Cutters all of these ER sizes have Metric Collets as well, and go a little bigger than this, these are just nominal sizes
ER16 3/8" Shank Cutters
ER20 1/2" shank Cutters

New-Product-220VAC-1-5KW-CNC-Water-Cooled-Spindle-Motor-engraving-milling-grind-65x185mm-ER16-3/1698976263.html?spm=2114.40010208.4.30.P9ISQ7]220v 1.5KW spindle water cooling CNC spindle motor ER16 Water Cooled Spindle Motor for engraving machine 80x195mm 4 Bearing-in Machine Tool Spindle

Four Bearing 1 5KW Water Cooled Spindle Motor ER16 VFD Drive Inverter AT1 | eBay