PRO4896-34 planning and build log

[seesoe]

Quick update here, up until about a month ago I haven't really done anything serious on the machine, just a bunch of art/engraving pieces, so precision didn't have to be 100%. I recently had to mill a bunch of manifolds out of 24" x 24" x 2" polypropylene and I was noticing that the base wasn't fully level. Also some of the Y axis bearings weren't fully contacting all the time and was becoming a problem. I was talking to the guys at CNC Router Parts about the issue and while I was on the phone with them I went ahead and ordered an upgrade kit that utilizes the new cam tensioning and gantry riser redesign. After installing the new kit and leveling the base more, I must say overall there is a lot less deflection in the machine. I'm very pleased with the new cam tensioning system / gantry risers. If anyone is still using the original bearing sleds, I would give CRP a call and look at upgrading. My kit was one of the first PRO4896 to go out so it was definitely worth it as I have much more stability at higher feed rates.

I'll take some pictures and post tomorrow.

Here is whats on my list in order to complete the refresh.
- Install 2010 Mach3 screenset
- Finish setting up auto z wire for spindle area and stationary touch plate for auto z tool height

On my back burner / maybe list
- Get a cyclone for the dust collector
- Integrate some sort of 2 way switch where I can manually control the dust collector, or have it trigger from Mach
- Do a little tram work. Things are fairly close but it could use some minor adjustments

[seesoe]

You'll see the cable track, new gantry riser system with cam tensioners, and dust collector setup











Quick video spoilboard surfacing

[seesoe]

I went ahead and finished leveling my machine's base to the best of may abilities and then trammed the spindle mount a little. I had to use a single shim of a soda can to get the Z/X plane and then the Z/Y came out pretty good. I remembered to take a picture last minute and my phone died, so the pictures aren't that telling.

Here you can see the new surface, way better.


After surfacing the spoilboard I checked to make sure things were still in check. Spinning the spindle a little yields an average of .002 differ

[Frankmali17]

Hello Seesoe,
Awesome build, and thank you for showing us pictures....
I heard people concerned with the wheels not touching/riding too well on the old riser setup... Do you feel this newer Riser setup is much improved and do the wheels seem to ride quite well on the Steel rails? I'm not looking for piston and cylinder type accuracy, but even in cabinetwork I like to be quite accurate...
Do you think you would recommend this type of machine for cutting cabinetwork?

[seesoe]

Hey Frank,

Thanks! The new riser system with the bearing cam tensioners eliminated all issues I was having with bearings not riding down 100% of the rail. The new system is very secure to the rails and is a lot more stiff in regards to deflection. A CRP router would definitely be qualified as a good cabinetwork machine. I myself will be starting soon with production for my custom furniture business.

I'm juggling the idea of installing a black box hurricane vacuum hold down for my router. Anyone have any thoughts or opinions on their systems?

[Frankmali17]

Hey,
Thanks for the Reply,
Regarding the Black Box Hurricane system...
I have seen it set up at IWF Atlanta, but it wasn't running...
This black box system started as a shop-bot project.. and through open source development by many people, it evolved into a real product.
I plan to use it myself...
but you should educate yourself how vacuum hold down works.. and only then proceed. You must realize, that Black box, is more like a Regenerative Blower that is used with a low density spoil board, that has less vacuum but is capable of more CFM... so the grip on the parts isn't as good, as those really expensive vacuum pumps/blowers.
and when I say expensive, I mean 5, 7, or even 10 grand, and a ton of money in electricity to run them...

The black box, allows you to use a vacuum type system at an entry level price...

[Frankmali17]

I guess it's like a Chinese water cooled spindle compared to an HSD auto tool changer one... the industrial spindles are great but cost 3x, 5x or even 10x more.

[seesoe]

Ya, I read all gary's posts about how it started. I'll be doing a lot of sheet goods so I've been looking into vac hold downs for some time now. I just don't have the time to design and building one from scratch. With that said I have a hurricane on the way. Hopefully I'll have time to run another 30 amp line and mill the plenum before the vac arrives.

The following arrive tomorrow, as well as electrical supply, which i'll route sometime this week.
Bleeder Board- 3/4 ultra light MDF
Plenum grid - 3/4 MDF
Plenum base - 1/2 MDF

The plenum grid will be made up of 1.5" on center squares with a 1/2" ball nose bit at 3/8" depth, and 1" border around all zones. Side to zone border 1", zone to zone border 1".




Tomorrow i'm planning on testing out this design/code on the current spoilboard since I need to mill it down anyways.

Stay tuned for more pictures and planning.

[seesoe]

This one is a little easier to see



I'm having a little trouble figuring out how people connect the piping to the bottom of the plenum, haven't really seen any threads talking about this. Is it press fit and silicone or flanged with gasket?

[Frankmali17]

Good Progess...
I bet you are excited...
I think that I would make sure I support the pipes adequately from underneath to the frame... I would think a flange/gasket may allow removal in the future... but otherwise a good fit and epoxy would be my next choice... I did see CAMaster use shower drain fittings with the metal screens on one table I saw at the show...

[seesoe]

Indeed!

I guess there isn't a right/wrong way to do it. I'm going to be looking for a way where I can mount a flange to the bottom of the table with NPT end and then NPT x slip will go to the vac system. That way I can remove a pipe from the table if need be.

I got all my mdf supplies this morning as well as test cut the plenum grid on my old spoilboard before i remove it. I'm pretty happy with the results, but my dust collector is going to hate me even more soon!

[seesoe]

over the weekend I ran another 10/3 30 amp line from the box to the machine area. I also planned and ordered pretty much everything else.



I found these flanges on amazon for a good price so I decided to go with a flange/gasket setup. Also my mcmaster order showed up today with some t nuts that I will use on top of the mounting board to bolt the flanges to. To recap, here is a quick list of the vacuum hold down.

3/4 ULFD for spoilboard
3/4 MDF for plenum grid
1/2 MDF that will hold the t nuts to allow the flanges to be bolted to the underside of the table
1/16 150 full face flange rubber gasket
2" PVC flange
2" Long PVC elbows to the hurricane


Side note, wood glue bottles are almost exactly size of 2" pvc

[Frankmali17]

Hey, Looking good...
I envy the progress you are making... because it will be quite a while before I can get to build my machine...
I have been learning software, and that kind of stuff... and sometimes doing projects on a DIY Wood Machine...
From what I seen... and this might not be the best practice for your application...
But here seems a good way to set this up... hopefully some of this helps...
First you mount a base material.. and then a material that you cut the plenum into.... You need to seal the MDF.... to stop vacuum bleed...
Then it seems that many guys like to surface the plenum lightly to expose raw MDF.. and glue the spoilboard to it...
This ofcourse doesn't allow you to pull it off easily but seems to make it all work stronger...

I like the gaskets and flanges you found...
Good luck.

[seesoe]

Hey Frank,

Yeah, that is exactly how i'll be putting this together.
- Bolt 1/2 MDF base sheet to frame
- Glue 3/4 MDF plenum to base sheet
- Cut grid and and seal with polyurethane
- Surface plenum just a hair as well as both sides of ULDF spoilboard sheet
- Glue ULDF spoilboard to plenum sheet

Elbow
Flange
Gasket #9472K45

[HDTHEATER]

I just subscribed to this thread as I am in the market for a new machine and am looking at the same model you are building.

Once you have all those boards bolted down, glued, and surfaced, how much Z travel is remaining? 5"?

Thanks,

-Eric

[seesoe]

Hey Eric,

Stock mechanical Z travel is 200 mm (~8"), and then with the base/plenum/spoilboard it will be ~150 mm (~6")

Highly recommend CNC Router Parts, good luck!

[seesoe]

I had some extra time over the weekend and I didn't' feel like dealing with all the dust from surfacing down my old spoilboard. So I did the following in order to access the current base sheet bolts.



Next I cut access holes in the machine's base so to allow access to the flange setup. (For some reason I chose to sheet the table base before putting the machine's frame on it.




My old spoilboard wasn't held down by to much bolts and I had drilled them manually. For this time around I decided to put 3 on each framing member and have the router do everything. This was also needed as to know where the framing members were so that I can design where the flanges will mount in regards to MACHINE zero.





Measure 3 times and cut once next time!





I used a clamp to press fit the prong t nuts into place and added silicone under before pressing them into place.





I only bolted 2 flanges today, i'm going to do the other 2 tomorrow as well as mount the base sheet to the frame.



Still haven't heard anything on the hurricane delivery nor was I able to get in touch with US router tools. Never the less, i'm making steady progress so stay tuned and thanks for following!

[seesoe]

Everything aligned up pretty nicely when I bolted the base sheet down. I will be gluing the plenum sheet down tomorrow, cut the grid wednesday night and seal a few coats by the weekend.

[seesoe]

I got the pump on monday and been sealing the plenum the past few days. Haven't really had time to work on the hold down system, however it is almost there.




The plumbing connects to the box with the black pvc couplings, I removed them and put the valves directly to the box so i can gain space.








its kind of tricky doing the plumbing and so for now I didn't glue anything together, however I did hammer tap all the pipes tightly, going to wait and see the results and go from there.

Sealing the grid is a big pain, takes lots of brushing, I have about 75% of 2 coats sealed already, tomorrow ill finish the second coat, and monday skin and glue the spoilboard.

[seesoe]

Got the rest of the plenum sealed and surfaced both sides and glued the spoilboard.

The color difference is when I ran out of oil based polyurethane.



It was a lot of work sealing but I happy with the results. I might of been able to get away with one thick coating instead of two.





While surfacing the top to allow the glue to stick.



Surface before glueing



Applied wood glue



I put the spoilboard on top and turned the vacuum on for about 45min to an hour while the glue set. I then let it dry overnight and surfaced the top the next day.

My spindle is fairly out of alignment compared to my spoilboard before. I did some adjustments but it still needs more (still usable for normal wood projects)

I didn't cut anything yet but with one stage powered on seems to hold down sheet goods pretty good. I'll decide if i'm going to glue the pvc pipes together depending on the results and in/Hg im pulling, however i'm fairly certain I have all the connections pretty tight.

Things to do
- Seal sides of spoilboard
- Install vacuum gauge
- align the spindle better in the xz and yz axis