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Is anyone know how the VFS5 manage power bus fault? I want to try to repair it by myself. Any diagrams???
VFS5 Fault Led - ERR 14 Power BUS
Hello Every one,
I have A VFS5 that was repaired 1 year ago for a similar problem: When powering the machine, all the axis move except the spindle that don't turn.
The Fault Led is on, The Relay Led is On, The SYS OK is On, The CPU is ON, And the Active is off.
I have tried to remove the motor cable, and power up the machine the error still.
The fault Led is on when i push the "Green Button" to energise the machine.
I have connect the VFS5 with motionlink and after push the Green Button, The alarm is ERR 14 Power Bus and printed many times with flashing Led Fault Every time the message is sorted.
I have do a standard check of the IGBT and seems OK.
The BUS voltage is OK ~320V DC
Thanks for your help.
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Re: VFS5 Fault Led - ERR 14 Power BUS
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Is anyone know how the VFS5 manage power bus fault? I want to try to repair it by myself. Any diagrams???
Re: VFS5 Fault Led - ERR 14 Power BUS
That 'error' is common and happens on good vfs5 drives all the time; are you sure it is a real issue for you?
Are you saying there NO Other faults shown in the error history?
If so, perhaps it is real...
What it means: means the dc bus is below about 90vdc WHEN the drive enable is given.
If it was me, I would put a voltmeter on dc bus AT THE VFS5 terminals, and have a friend push the green go button. Is the bus delayed in coming up? If not, do it again and watch the green ACTIVE led: is it blinking on then immediately off? maybe TOO soon? Maybe you have a stuck enable relay or a time delay not time delaying anymore?
you have prints? maybe you can study the enable circuits and see if there is an issue there?
since y ou have motionlink Plus, you could enter K to KILL the running program in the VFS5. then try pushing green button. then YOU can enable it yourself with the software enable command EN after you are sure dc bus is good? If it still faults, then you have some other issue - maybe the dc bus detection circuitry is defective. since you have motion link, you could interogate the dc bus and see if the drive sees it on while your friend holds in the green go button to force M20 to remain on for your test...
Re: VFS5 Fault Led - ERR 14 Power BUS
Hello thank you for reply.
I have put a voltmeter and push green button, and the voltage was 332 VDC. The Enable led was not lit. The red led start to flash. So the DCBUS is correct.
I have now use motionlinkplus with vfs5. In the "DRIVE SETTINGS" menu, the DCBUS Voltage is in read only mode and it's 230 VDC before and after pushing the green button.
After pushing the green button and enable it with motionlink there is a message error of DC bus "err 14". And now i see another message "error 83 BAD or Out Of Range".
Any Idea?
Re: VFS5 Fault Led - ERR 14 Power BUS
no other ideas other than what i suggested previously:
since y ou have motionlink Plus, you could enter K to KILL the running program in the VFS5. then try pushing green button. then YOU can enable it yourself with the software enable command EN after you are sure dc bus is good? If it still faults, then you have some other issue - maybe the dc bus detection circuitry is defective. since you have motion link, you could interogate the dc bus and see if the drive sees it on while your friend holds in the green go button to force M20 to remain on for your test...
Send it out for repair. Our turn around time is about 2 weeks if not rushed; most others will be similar.
Re: VFS5 Fault Led - ERR 14 Power BUS
Thank you for your reply.Originally Posted by mike_Kilroy
I have used motionlink plus but i don't see where i can interogate the dc bus?
Re: VFS5 Fault Led - ERR 14 Power BUS
I did not study the 25 year old manual variables; assumed it was there. oh well, doesnt matter: K kill it in terminal, then EN enable it in terminal while watching your voltmeter on dc bus terminals; if drive dies with bus fault you know the drive is bad inside.
with all the iterlocks, you may have to be ready to K enter then EN enter watching your meter at correct time in homing cycle or something.
Re: VFS5 Fault Led - ERR 14 Power BUS
Sometimes the Bus volt error circuit in the VFS5 is triggered because the power supply cannot supply the starting current for the spindle, the bus voltage dips at startup and the VFS5 reports the bus voltage error and will not enable. This is usually caused by the soft start SCR control circuit in the PSU not working.
Re: VFS5 Fault Led - ERR 14 Power BUS
Good point. See this by using a max/min digital voltmeter; put it on dc bus at vfs5 terminals, set max/min so MIN reads normal 330vdc. press green go button. See what the MIN reading is after that. If it dipped a lot then the issue could be the PSR4/5. But in his case he removed the motor leads and tried starting machine: there will be no current inrush that way.
seraum, did you get it working? If so what was it?
If not, rather than trying to use Motionlink Plus to kill and enable, if you just pull the enable relay in the cabint for the spindle, have friend push gree go button, then you push relay back in - about 1 sec after gree button pushed - that would eliminate any timing issue of enable coming too soon...
Re: VFS5 Fault Led - ERR 14 Power BUS
Hello @richmmm & @mike_kilroy
I have check all the components on the VFS5 Power card that handle the IGBT and found nothing to be bad, i have changed all the capacitors and overvoltage-undervoltage circuits and also drivers for IGBT, and IGBT itself for security. After that i still have the same problem. I dont check the controller card that contain CPU.
With using motionlink plus killing and enabling from the software, motionlink plus gave the same error message ERR14 POWERBUS and Error 83 bad or out of range with a flashing Red LED.
I thought a bad BRAM could do that, but from what I read on the forum and the manual, the CPU LED should flash, which is not the case.
Now the VFS5 is at my friend to try to resolve this problem by checking components, maybe i forgot something to check. He found nothing. I have to get it back today with the same problem.
I will try your method today or tomorrow.
For information, before that happened, if i start the spindle to 6000rpm for exemple it make more that 10 seconds to arrive to this speed, also when stop the spindle from 6k rpm it make more than 10 seconds to brake. After restarting the machine the problem gone happened.
Re: VFS5 Fault Led - ERR 14 Power BUS
A bad BRAM CAN do this. If YOU are not typing in bad commands, then that 'bad or out of range' is likely bad BRAM battery.
You do NOT have to see flashing cpu light (meaning autobaud turned on) to have a bad BRAM.
When was it last changed? it had a design life of 6 years; if never changed, it is proably at 20 years old now!
Your friend cannot replace it: we need to reprogram it with variables not available to your friend.
Yes I know that my friend cannot change BRAM. I know also that you can
This VFS5 has been changed 2 years ago approximately, from an exchange service. So normally they must change it as a standard repair.
Remark; on the BRAM there is a "1" marked with felt pen, I think that it was reloaded.
Question: is there any procedure to be sure that BRAM is OK?
Re: VFS5 Fault Led - ERR 14 Power BUS
""For information, before that happened, if i start the spindle to 6000rpm for exemple it make more that 10 seconds to arrive to this speed, also when stop the spindle from 6k rpm it make more than 10 seconds to brake. After restarting the machine the problem gone happened.""
I still suspect the PSU. I have seen a machine where the soft start was not working, the spindle would run at lo speed jog, but when commanded to hi speed the PSU could not supply the required current and the voltage dropped below the undervolt threshold on the VFS5 (about 190V)
Rich
Re: VFS5 Fault Led - ERR 14 Power BUS
Agree it can be the PSR too.
If you post picture of the top of the BRAM, we should be able to read the date code. As for an "exchange service" replacing it, usually not possible for them.
Hello,
Today after power the machine and energize the PSU there is an alarm of S-axis encoder - ALARM 44-52 S-axis encoder - With the SERVO TUNING page of acramatic, when turn the spindle with hand, it report the position. But after push the green button to energize the PSU the position on screen change randomly. After using motion link it give the same symptom. The spindle don't rotate physically.
When disconnect the resolver cable from C2, the same symptom.
Any idea??
The error history on motion link show Err 14 power bus.
Re: VFS5 Fault Led - ERR 14 Power BUS
Wow. No idea. Pix of bram?
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Mike@@@KilroyWasHere.com
Re: VFS5 Fault Led - ERR 14 Power BUS
Please find it attached.
I have removed the Power Bus cable from VFS5 and the problem with S-encoder alarm don't happened. Maybe there is a parasitic leakage of powerbus voltage to the GND of 5V?
Also i want to know if i can use a VFS5-275 in place of VFS5-240 ? Is it possible to limit the 75A VFS5 to 40A using motionlink? Normaly the VFS5-275 is for a 8000RPM spindle and the VFS5-240 is for the 6000RPM one.
Re: VFS5 Fault Led - ERR 14 Power BUS
- I'll have our tech check date code and let you know. I suspect it is sept 1995...
- What is S axis? spindle is called C is it not? Is S the Troyke rotary table?
- yes you can prob use the 75, and I can look at prog to see if you can set I limit down (ILIM variable) - will post later on this
- interesting comment on noise into 5v line... had a customer last year with a new one: everytime spindle turned on, the 120vac logic supply to PSR4/5 would pop. melted stuff eventually. Took a couple weeks but finally found it: a spindle motor phae shorted to ground! Apparently that fed high voltage (noise?) back thru the 120v system! So guess maybe you should check your motor leads to ground!
Re: VFS5 Fault Led - ERR 14 Power BUS
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The resolver is connected to VFS5 to C3 Connector (as an input i think) and C1 connector (as output) go to Acramatic J1 port. The test was with/without connecting the motor lead, so the motor is not the cause. I suspect something into VFS5 that parasite the signal.
So the S-axis is the spindle. In the acramatic servo page tuning, it's indicate "S C axis", i think it's the same.
Re: VFS5 Fault Led - ERR 14 Power BUS
ok, tnx. Guess I do recall seeing that S C axis once...
ok on motor being disconnected, so not a short to ground.
Your BRAM chip: made in 1995, 9th week. 5yr design life. new replacements use lithium battery AND batt is NOT connected internally until >4.5v Vcc is applied the first time! Then its 10 yr guaranteed life begins...
I think you are well overdue for your VFS5 updated, cleaned, and various electrolytic caps replaced. If you have access to that larger drive, my opinion is go for it. I would not worry too much about differences - either it will be stable and work or it won't. Course I can't be responsible if you overheat the motor as these are just my opinions. ILIM is 0-100% of peak current limit; you could set it to ILIM 50 and see if it is remembered thru a power down... I don't recall if motor TL file is reread on power up or not...
