Arrow 750 A2100 Error 44-52 C-axis Encoder Fail


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Thread: Arrow 750 A2100 Error 44-52 C-axis Encoder Fail

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    Default Arrow 750 A2100 Error 44-52 C-axis Encoder Fail

    We have a 2000 Arrow 750, last week we lost one phase on our incoming power. Luckily the mill was at idle, but it took a couple minutes until I figured out what had happened and shut the machine down.

    When power was restored I found the PC power supply was fried (literally), so I replaced that with a new AT power supply. Upon boot I received a 44-52 C-Axis encoder fail. I tried power cycling to see if it cleared up - but no.

    Pulled the DV5 board, cleaned the contacts, and looked for any fried components. Finding nothing visually wrong with the board I put back in. The 44-52 error was still present upon restart.

    Went to the Servo Setup page and looked at each axis, giving them a physical wiggle to confirm the encoders are sending feedback data. No feedback data present for Port-1(C). Tried switching the connections on Port 1(C) and Port 2(X). The X axis scale was showing up under Port-1 in the Servo Setup page with data; but no data for Port-2 which now had the C axis connected and a corresponding alarm for X-axis, but no more C axis alarm.

    So this in my mind rules out the DV5 board; but where to go next?

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    Default Re: Arrow 750 A2100 Error 44-52 C-axis Encoder Fail

    Check for power at the encoder? use a scope to look at the encoder output. It looks like You have already narrowed it down to the encoder or encoder cable.



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    Default Re: Arrow 750 A2100 Error 44-52 C-axis Encoder Fail

    What drives do you have , are they black ( Kollmorgan) or beige ( Siemens) ??

    MIKE http://cncmachineservices.com



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    Default Re: Arrow 750 A2100 Error 44-52 C-axis Encoder Fail

    Hee hee mike. U shud have that question on speed dial since u have to ask it so often!

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

    Mike@@@KilroyWasHere.com


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    Default Re: Arrow 750 A2100 Error 44-52 C-axis Encoder Fail

    Sounds like a lot of defective encoder emulation outputs lately! If you need any we have spare option boards.

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

    Mike@@@KilroyWasHere.com


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    Default Re: Arrow 750 A2100 Error 44-52 C-axis Encoder Fail

    Sorry I haven't been paying more attention to my thread, but is still have other machines I need to keep running.

    That machine has blue Acramatic drives.

    I checked the resolver this morning at three different locations with the same results (Male plug on resolver (unplugged), female plug at spindle, and plug at BDS5) RD-BK1 (Bk-Rd @ resolver) 14.8 ohms, Wh-BK2 (Bl-Yl @ resolver) 14.8 ohms, Gr-Bk3 (Rd/Wh-Yl/Wh @ resolver) 34.9 ohms. If those numbers are correct then the resolver and wiring are good.

    When the control is initialized I have no lights on on the spindle drive.

    Last edited by pinmach; 04-18-2017 at 12:02 PM.


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    Default Re: Arrow 750 A2100 Error 44-52 C-axis Encoder Fail

    Those values are fine, but why did you bother checking them? they are not your problem. if there was an issue with them, the motor would not be able to even turn. they are fine.

    YOUR problem is either your enc input card on a2100, the vfs5 enc emulation OUTPUT card inside the drive, or the cable between these two pieces. we can help with the vfs5 parts/repairs, fves and others can help with the a2100 enc input card thing - I think Mike E on here who already replied also has parts for that.



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    Default Re: Arrow 750 A2100 Error 44-52 C-axis Encoder Fail

    To add to my response above, after control initialization none of the drives appear to have any power - nothing in the corner read outs.

    I'm assuming I was receiving axis feedback from the other 3 axis is that they all have linear scales and they are powered externally.

    I had a look at PSU1 and there is no output from C7 - logic power, there is also no power coming in on lead 414 DC BUS OK. According to the print book lead 410 @ TB4_5 goes thru TR2 and out 414 @ TB4_6 to PSU1. 410 has 118V. I tried switching the relay from CR34 with TR2 with no change.



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    Default Re: Arrow 750 A2100 Error 44-52 C-axis Encoder Fail

    I can't remember at what point the drives initialize? What signals the drives to power up and when in the power up sequence?



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    Default Re: Arrow 750 A2100 Error 44-52 C-axis Encoder Fail

    Quote Originally Posted by pinmach View Post
    I can't remember at what point the drives initialize? What signals the drives to power up and when in the power up sequence?
    maybe you should consider hiring someone to come in and help you?

    IIRC, pushing the green go button the second time powers all drives and spindle by, again IIRC pulling in M20 mail 3ph power to PSR4 contactor. nothing else happens until after that. you sound like this is not happening.



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    Default Re: Arrow 750 A2100 Error 44-52 C-axis Encoder Fail

    Mike, usually you can do things like upload/download to the drives with the control initialized and not the servos/motors powered up. Same thing with running motionlink, the drives have logic power but motors/servos aren't powered up.

    I no longer own this machine since I sold it to my now current employer who has no experience in computerized equipment save for the last 2 years, and our motto seems to be to do things the cheapest way possible even if it's more expensive. So it's a bit of a battle.



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    Default Re: Arrow 750 A2100 Error 44-52 C-axis Encoder Fail

    so wait: are you saying you dont have LOGIC POWER to any servostar axis drive or spindle drive? dIFFERENT PROBLEM...

    logic goes into each servostar at connector C5. it comes from the pa75 power suply connector C7. C7 in pa gets power from 220vac 1ph into connector C8.

    the same logic parallel wiring to all the C5's also goes to the spindle logic connector C4.

    Seems like this should easy to diagnose...



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    Default Re: Arrow 750 A2100 Error 44-52 C-axis Encoder Fail

    Thanks for your help Mike.

    Correct, it took me a little bit to figure it out since I was under pressure from management to fix the spindle drive (from the C axis error) and keep our other two cnc's fed (I'm the only one in the machining/tooling dept). So they had me pull out the spindle drive send it to a "repair" guy who didn't even know what I brought him and check the encoder. I didn't notice the drives weren't powering up until the other day when I go the spindle drive back.

    None of the drives have logic power.

    At PSU1 I have 234VAC @ C8, but nothing coming out C7 which according to the print book should be +15VDC,-15VDC, ground, and +8VDC.

    Next question is what triggers logic power output at C7, should I see power output as soon as PSU1 receives input power at C8?



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    Default Re: Arrow 750 A2100 Error 44-52 C-axis Encoder Fail

    Weird it took a long time for my post above to show up.



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    Default Re: Arrow 750 A2100 Error 44-52 C-axis Encoder Fail

    nothing 'triggers' it - apply 230v to C8 and our internal PS makes the outputs on C7. Just FYI, it is NOT +/-15 it is +/-18v & typically +10v - we have regulators in EACH BDS4 and VFS5 to regulate this crude higher voltage down to +/-15 & +5.

    We repair these daily, but to save you the trouble, why not take the cover off the ps and check for a small fuses?

    You should have manuals on all our drives; if not send me an email and I will send u links to them. Meanwhile, back at the farm, my manual says:

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Arrow 750 A2100 Error 44-52 C-axis Encoder Fail-pa75-fuse-jpg  


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    Default Re: Arrow 750 A2100 Error 44-52 C-axis Encoder Fail

    Thanks Mike, the fuse in PA75 power supply is dead. It looks like things got pretty warm in there. The thermistor next to the fuse melted into the film capacitor next to it and there is smoke film on the board.



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    Default Re: Arrow 750 A2100 Error 44-52 C-axis Encoder Fail

    sounds broke indeed. We repair these daily; email if you want to know what we can offer. You can try to replace components but it sounds like more is bad than you think. those 'thermistors' are actual PTC devices we use for softstart on THE DC BUS! That is of course different than the logic supply. I have watched Terry do magic using epoxy and stuff to rebuild the melted PCB under those PCT inrush limiters... We just repaired a similiar pcb melt down in a 50" diameter motor; the hall pcb was gone. Terry did his magic. Save the customer from buying a 20 week lead time $ 215,000.00 new motor...



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Arrow 750 A2100 Error 44-52 C-axis Encoder Fail