Need help on my a used Cincinnati Arrow 750

[gmsmith10]

Need help on my a used Cincinnati Arrow 750... Please.

Apologies for the NEED HELP... I don't like to com to forums empty handed but... We in it thick right now...

We are in a real bind here to get this running. We took on a special project for what could be a key customer (first one from them but a lot of opportunity) with an aggressive schedule (our fault) and this will absolutely kill us… or rather our chances for doing anything with them again. I am hoping we are just doing something wrong but would really appreciate a help assess the depth of the problem.

First this is our first Cincinnati...

We just took delivery of what looks(ed) like a really nice condition Cincinnati Milacron Arrow 750 from a prototype Medical shop in nice shape. Like 1100hrs... It was in Northern CA.

We witnessed it running before crating and transport to southern California.

It came here with its transformer which we re-wired to accomodate our 208 and confirmed 230VAC at output. We had to change lugs from the 440V it was on when we got it.

When it got here, we found the X & Y were blocked but the Z was not blocked…

• The system can be jogged in all axis… to limits or just before… so the servos are working.
• The readout tracks
• What’s Odd is the Z axis readout won’t read less than like 20” and if you go to the lower limit will go up to 35+ inches before hitting limit.
• When all axis are in the middle and you perform the Align procedure:
  
  • The Z Axis will go to the top and stop… the readout will still be about -20” (Negative 20.329”)
  • While continuing to hold the align button, Y Axis will start to move back and stop (at limit I “think” with the attached error. Interestingly, in jog mode it will move fine and the readout increments and decrements properly. And it will show a reading of +0.305

I find it curious all axis will jog
I find it curious Z will not ZERO (or we haven’t found how.
The head was not blocked for transport so I wonder if the head moved down and the system thinks its somewhere else…

SO, it ain’t dead but it does appear stupid…

Previous error logs are very light on error activity so, it’s been running fine at the previous shop.

Here are some pics but… I stood with the machinist on the machine and went through the startup/align procedure.

If someone had Skype or an Apple phone for Facetime we could walk through it that way too. Again, we’re in trouble and hope there’s a straight forward solution.

We Sincerely Appreciate ANY help that can be had...

Greg

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[JordanMach]

Greg,

I am not perfect with the Cincinnati as I have only had my Arrow 2 1250C for a little over a year not and is my only one. i am self teaching myself the entire thing. First thing, you never attached any pictures to your post. 2nd, can we have more info? What drives do you have and what control? I assume the Acramatic 2100 (A2100), and possibly the Siemens Simo Drives? When I align my Z axis it never reads 0(Zero) as Zero is the table, so mine will read a Positive number. I will have to double check this Monday. As fir the Z not being blocked, that is strange to me. But It falling down a few inched while machine is off should not have confused the machine at all. As when you turn power off to your machine in shop, it will drop .100" before the Z axis brake engages. So I dont think there is in issue with the machine being confused from being lost from movement during shipping. I have torn all my axis apart on my Arrow 2 and have moved them all with machine off and havent had it be confused when turned on, that is what Axis Align is for.

Lastly, what is your exact issue? I know you say the Z doesnt read Zero and neither does the Y axis. But I dont think mine ever says Zero either. I will check Monday. The only issue I can see you are asking about is an error? But you never said what the error was? Also when you say it wont go below 20", is that truly 20" above table or is that what the system reads? Like is 20 your table and 35" the top of its limit? Like maybe its range is not aligned? Normally 0-20" but now is 20" to 40"?

Sorry, trying to gather all your thoughts, questions and concerns on this. I do know that my machine was a huge learning curve for me coming from all Fanuc 6 and Meldas M3 Controls.

Jordan

[gmsmith10]

Greg,

I am not perfect with the Cincinnati as I have only had my Arrow 2 1250C for a little over a year not and is my only one. i am self teaching myself the entire thing. First thing, you never attached any pictures to your post. 2nd, can we have more info? What drives do you have and what control? I assume the Acramatic 2100 (A2100), and possibly the Siemens Simo Drives? When I align my Z axis it never reads 0(Zero) as Zero is the table, so mine will read a Positive number. I will have to double check this Monday. As fir the Z not being blocked, that is strange to me. But It falling down a few inched while machine is off should not have confused the machine at all. As when you turn power off to your machine in shop, it will drop .100" before the Z axis brake engages. So I dont think there is in issue with the machine being confused from being lost from movement during shipping. I have torn all my axis apart on my Arrow 2 and have moved them all with machine off and havent had it be confused when turned on, that is what Axis Align is for.

Lastly, what is your exact issue? I know you say the Z doesnt read Zero and neither does the Y axis. But I dont think mine ever says Zero either. I will check Monday. The only issue I can see you are asking about is an error? But you never said what the error was? Also when you say it wont go below 20", is that truly 20" above table or is that what the system reads? Like is 20 your table and 35" the top of its limit? Like maybe its range is not aligned? Normally 0-20" but now is 20" to 40"?

Sorry, trying to gather all your thoughts, questions and concerns on this. I do know that my machine was a huge learning curve for me coming from all Fanuc 6 and Meldas M3 Controls.

Jordan

Hello Jordan,
We're new to the 750 as well...
Lots of my previous post were based on initial observations... I have more info but not much in clarity.
Control is Acramatic 2100, Drives are Koll Morgan, 4th axis is installed but not connected yet
CLEAN machine and low hours... like 1,100
I've pulled off all connectors to drives and reconnected... no change.
Double checked all terminal connections.

Update… we got the Arrow 750 to go through it’s alignment.Here’s what we found regarding previous message… We found the table was notmoving all the way back and in fact was about 2” from the limit switch when itwould stop and error out.

Turns out, the man on the machine wasn’t initially familiarwith the align procedure. When we received the machine the X & Y wereblocked and, at the Y limit as it “appeared” to my recollection. So, what hedid was put a socket on the end of the ball screw and rotated the screw to moveoff the limit switch. I had him rotate the screw back to approximately where itwas… approximate because he didn’t keep any particular track of it. Once he didthat, the 750 finished the alignment procedure for X, Y & Z… I’m guessingthat’s not to say it’s correct or calibrated but it did complete that process.

THEN... the next morning.... yesterday... the “luck” didn’t last. Came in to seeif we could repeat an align and it starts the process and then it comes up withthe CR_AXES_RDY error…
As we do this more, I am having a feeling the machine itselfis lost relative to itself… Weird sounding I know but… for instance. When wecleared a previous users coordinate measurements and then went to so an align,whereas Z had shown a position of -20” at the home up position, while aligning,it moved up about 5” and displayed it moved 5” but when it hit the upper limit,the CR_AXES_RDY error happened.

There’s a similar “feeling” regarding this as related to theY axis previously… this is where the tech (machinist) had rotated the ballscrew to move the table off limits. I had him rotate it to approximately whereit would have been.

It “seems” there is a soft envelope for limits and then thehard limits of the switches.

Seems the tech reset position in the coordinate axis position when the Z was about 5" from top - it read zero then and then when he went to align, read 5" at the Z top limit and presents a CR_AXES_RDY error there. It is now on the Z axis limit and will not enter jog mode at all for any axis...

There must be a way to tell/reset the machine where it is. I haven't seen a way in the manuals (we received) except for the standard align procedure when it works. Now that nothing can be mad to move I'm lost... Actually when you power on the motors, the relay pulls in, all lights go proper green, it waits for a few seconds and then errors out. I believe it is because where the Z thinks it is vs the switch

It’s a circa 97 machine … S/N 7043 A0A 970855

AC Input through transformer is 230VAC
All drive voltages are 325V and track all the way down theline.

We're at a loss...

[JordanMach]

I will try my best to help you, but I am not going to guarantee anything. My machine is an 01, with Siemens Drives, and has scales on the X and Y axis and the Z axis cannot hit the top limit switch once it is aligned. Because of all this, I have not hit the limit switch in a very long time. I actually think I only have 1 limit switch on the entire machine, that being the top of the Z axis. I have a guy on the machine right now, but maybe around lunch I will restart the machine, and try jogging the Z axis into the limit switch.

On this note. From what I have read, to get the machine into a "Safe Mode" to jog off an axis over travel, I Think I remember seeing that you have to hold the green "Power On" button, then hand wheel the axis off its limit. I am assuming you have tried to power off the machine, then back on and try hand wheeling it that way? Sometimes I find that works with limits on machines. And when you power down this machine, I found that just "Restarting" the control does NOT work. It is best to 100% shut down the machine down to main power into the machine being shut off, then do a full power up. For some reason when you restart the Control the drives dont "Restart" and will show all same alarms to Control once booted up. (This is for my machine at least)

As for your drives and the alarms. You have 2 pictures of the drives, one picture has no alarms except for the right drive(4th axis?). The second picture shows all having an Undervolt alarm. Is this a before and after of the Alarm on the control? I can see the Control showing those alarms when the drives have alarmed out from an over travel.

When you say the tech had rotated the ballscrew, is this with machine power on or off? Just want to clarify all details.

Try getting the Z axis off its limit and let me know where you are after that.

[JordanMach]

I tried to test out what happens when I hit my over travel on my Z axis to see how you go about getting it off the over travel switch.

After start up but before Aligning. I handwheeled the Z axis up and got 2 alarms.
1st - NCA-Axis Pulse Enable Alarm
2nd - NCA-Z Axis Drive Alarm.

I am able to clear the first alarm, but not the 2nd.

In order to clear the 2nd alarm I must first hit E-STOP, then clear the alarm on my Z axis drive back in the cabinet. Once I do those steps I can clear the alarm up at the control.

Once these alarms are all cleared out, I can power up the machine with no more alarms, handwheel down and then align the axis'.

I tried holding the Green Power button, but that did not allow me to do anything. I dont think my machine has limit switched, it seems as my machine hits maximum travel and the axis drive alarms out from the force of hitting end of travel. I think the switch I have on my Z axis if for alignment only.

This is how my machine works, this does not mean how all of them work as they all have different features. I think yours will work if you hold the Green Power button to take it off the over travel switch. Attached are my 2 alarms I receive I was talking about up^^ there. Update us on how it goes. Good Luck!

Jordan