Pete's Cincinatti arrow 500 Adventure

[TOTALLYRC]

That looks like it is one hell of a piece of aluminum.

Mike

[pete from TN]

TotallyRC,
LOL thanks man I have been working on this design for a week or two now and it came out pretty nice. I am also making another version that is similar but deeper. It will get some different machining on the top and bottom. It is not much but it is something. I need to get this done and find more work for the machine soon so I do not have to work in someone else's shop LOL.. Peace

Pete

[TOTALLYRC]

Working for somebody else is not the end of the world especially if they offer benefits and vacation.
I am mostly getting my tools ready for when I retire which is quite aways off.


Mike

[pete from TN]

Mike,
OH don't get me wrong I am glad to be working there and I am actually learning quite a bit from them. I just feel like I put so much time and effort into this machine that I am wanting to use it for my own business. There are no real benefits worth talking about and this is at least in my view a temporary position at least until I can get some work going thru the shop. Working on that right now. I am also making parts like this one for my customers that I designed parts for. Peace

Pete

[slowlearner]

Pete, I know where you are coming from. My new job is great but its different. Kinda set in my ways after 25 years in my own shop.Good things are going to happen for both of us just be patient.

[pete from TN]

Slowlearner,
I hear ya man I am trying to get work for it now. Actually working in the shop I have learned something new each day. I am sure I will find some work here for the mill soon. One of the guys in the shop is helping me to do that with some other local companies that are not customers of theirs and they are also saying they will give me work to do on the days I am off. Peace

Pete

[pete from TN]

Hey folks,
It has been some time since I have posted here. I have been busy running the machine and working on designs that I am trying to sell. So far the machine has performed very well. I STILL have yet to get the encoder feedback working but that is coming. I was running the machine the other day making some mods to a part for a local machinist friend. The spindle motor has sounded a bit rough since I got the machine but that day it got worse to the point I no longer felt good about running it. I tore the motor down that night and proceeded to try to find replacement bearings for the motor. They are apparently High speed angular contact bearings made in England. I tried to find them but found that Fafnir makes identical bearings and was able to get them for a good price from an ebay seller brand new. The part numbers are as follows. FAFNIR 2MM209WI DUL - Speed Rating 17500/Grease, 27000/Oil
FAFNIR 2MM306WI CR - Speed Rating 22100/Grease, 32000/Oil

They arrived yesterday and I am currently working on getting them installed with the recommended Kluber Isflex NBU15 high speed bearing grease. Thanks to my Pal Connor for selling me just enough to load each bearing. Hopefully we will have it back together tonight or tomorrow and be running making parts again. While I have it apart I will be installing the new spindle encoder and working on getting it integrated into the control.

The machine has been running quite well and making a lot of chips. I have been filling large garbage bags with aluminum chips from the parts I have been making lately. Still looking for that elusive nice contract work that I can do on a more consistent basis but so far I am pleased with the machine and progress. I am very pleased with the accuracy and repeatability of the Cincinatti it is a fine machine and I am getting the hang of setting it up and working on it more and more each day. It is great with the full flood enclosure and the heavy flow rate of coolant seems to blow chips clear even in the deepest pockets. I am going to get this baby back together and start making some more parts. So far we have sold parts to folks all over the world and most recently to France and England. It is nice to know my work has traveled so far. Anyways here are some pictures of the work I have been doing lately. Peace

Pete

[slowlearner]

Pete,
It sure looks like you have things going your way these days. I will be in touch later on.
Scott

[pete from TN]

Scott,
Hell no man if I had thing going my way I would own a nice CNC lathe and this CNC mill would be completely retrofitted and I would have work coming out of my ears making lots of cash but alas so far that has eluded me LOL. I am working on it tho. Peace


Pete

[pete from TN]

Okay folks...
After a lot of grunting and sweating and careful setup the new spindle motor bearings are installed. Yesterday I ran them in following the procedure on Fafnir's website. I am pleased to be able to say that I can now run the machine at full speed and it sounds smooth and calm. I am now working on some fabrication work and I am trying to get the design for the encoder mount in the machine to get it cut so I can install the new encoder and finally have rigid tapping on this monster. It will sure be nice when I get that done. I am still running the spindle at more reasonable levels as I want the spindle bearings to last as long as possible because I know they are pricey and hard to install at least that is what I understand. The motor is pretty damn heavy and I did not have a crane that would reach enough into the machine to help me lift it so I just huffed it up there. It was about all I wanted to do it and I would not want to have to do that more than a few times. Just glad it is back together again and running WAY smoother and quieter than it was before. Now to get some more CNC milling done here and try to recoup some of the money I spent on the bearings and unobtanium grease. Peace

Pete

[pete from TN]

Well folks
I finally got around to machining the new encoder mount for the spindle. I am gonna run down and grab some screws and bolts to install it and then I can finally get the encoder feedback working so I can have rigid tapping and then start playing with the toolchanger. This is very exciting to finally be nearing completion of the retrofit. I know it has been slow going but I have a lot of other things I am working on.

I am also pleased to say that I managed to get a prototype job for a large local company today. I just got the 3d models and a purchase order confirmation so I have to get this thing machined looking beautiful. There are actually six parts to an assembly all of which are somewhat complex and large so I am going to try to get it looking as excellent as I possibly can. The designer at this company said that if I can do a good job on this one they have a LOT more work for me to do. That would be awesome to be able to get some good paying consistent work for the machine finally instead of only relying on the parts I make design and machine myself to sell. This is starting to get interesting around here lately. Once I get some more consistent work I plan to purchase a commercial CNC lathe to complement the Cincinatti hopefully something very similar to the Cinci. Here are some photos of the encoder mount. Peace

Pete

[pete from TN]

Okay another update. I managed to get the TINY holes tapped to install the new encoder head to my custom machined mount. I also turned the encoder stub shaft that goes into the spindle motors armature threaded hole to accept the new encoder wheel. I turned it on the lathe it was a 6mm x .1 thread and the encoder wheel is a quarter inch hole so it was custom shaft machining. I can now try to assemble the whole thing and attach it to the motor and start wiring it up. Apparently the original resolver cable that went to the motor is indeed four twisted pair shielded with ground so I am going to be able to install this encoder without having to replace the whole cable. This is nice because the original cable has quality Milspec Barrel connectors on the motor and the end of the cable so I should be good to reuse it. It is a very heavy cable and after taking apart the control side end I think it should last a lifetime in this machine. I am going to try to assemble it today and then I need to monkey with the barrel plugs to try to extract the pins to solder the new leads on and get it all wired up.

Apparenlty Pete From Mesanet has written some kind of program that will allow the 5i25/7i77 to mask the 180 out index pulse on the encoder to work like the original control did so after we install this upgrade I should only have to hook the encoder wires directly into the 7i77 card and jumper a pin apparently. If that works I think this will be a sweet setup and basically plug and play for the most part. My pal Connor has already worked very hard on a toolchanger programming setup and has it working in simulation so we will be able to install that also and get everything setup to start testing.

We are planning a nice meeting here at my shop. Sort of a small version of the LinuxCNC meetings held recently but this time it will be at my shop and we will be working on Connors machine and someone from Georgia as well. Hoping this will be a fruitful and enjoyable weekend. Looking forward to it. Peace


Pete

[pete from TN]

Okay folks another little update. I have the new encoder mount all machined, I have the encoder shaft turned from tool steel bar stock and I have the encoder mounted and ready to be installed. I also found out that the original resolver wiring has the necessary leads encased in the shielded cable to be able to install it into the new encoder without any further cost or trickery. So we will be installing that very soon. Right now I am working on a large six part prototype project for a big local company. I am hopeful I can do a good job and receive further work from them in the future. So far I have everything machined on the first side and working on fixtures to hold the parts for the second side. They are really cool looking funky parts but unfortunately I am unable to show them here.

I am also excited because this weekend we are having a little LinuxCNC fest here at the shop. Several local guys are coming to visit and we will be working on projects for each of us. Hopefully it will be an effective event and I look forward to meeting these guys in person I have talked to so much online over the last few years. My wife is making her famous Chicken chimichangas and we will be basically glued into the shop making all manner of stuff. Hopefully everyone will enjoy it and we can get a lot done.

Well thats it for now I am going to try to keep posting here on my progress. Peace

Pete

[bill south]

Hey Pete;
Congrats on getting some work for your monster. Nice looking parts. I must say you have came a long way from the NOOBIE asking for wiring help in my shop. Been awhile and you've done great! Glad to see you're having fun and (hopefully) will be making a living some day doing what you love to do!
I've been super busy these last few years doing life stuff. Retirement in maybe 2 years though and then I'm going to be a shop rat!
Take Care.
Bill

[pete from TN]

HEY BILL!!
Nice to hear from you. Yeah the machine has been running perfectly. I am right now finishing up the last operations on a custom Prototype for a large local company. I am very pleased to be doing this work for them it is hopefully going to lead to future work and money. They are a major manufacturer and the guy told me they make like 14k parts a month in that facility. The parts are looking great and the machine has been running very very well. This weekend we are having a little linuxCNC fest here at my shop and a couple guys from the LinuxCNC IRC have said they are coming over. The plan is to work on each others machining projects for our CNC's and hopefully we can get the Encoder installed and working I cannot wait to have Rigid tapping capability and full toolchanger working. Should be soon hopefully. Hope you are well. Peace

Pete

[pete from TN]

Well good news folks. After this weekends LinuxCNC meeting and fabfest here at my shop we managed to get the spindle encoder finally installed. I machined a beautiful mount on top of a round boss that sits on top of the motor. It looks factory almost and it fit perfectly. Then we were able to solder and double heat shrink the leads from the new encoder to the original resolver cable and it had the right amount of leads inside it to allow full differential encoder feedback to the 7i77 card and linuxCNC. Yesterday I went with a friend from the LinuxCNC IRC to Kentucky to look at a nice used Cincinatti Sabre machine and he may be buying it for himself to use in his shop. Most likely he will be following my lead with components and boards and drives/motors from what he says apparently.

Yesterday when we got back from Kentucky to my shop he offered to help me get this encoder wired up and configured in the software. He is very capable with the programming end of stuff and it appeared to be pretty easy for him. We were able to get the encoder wired into the 7i77 card very easily and then powered up the machine to configure it and look for the signals in HAL. Once we found the signals it was a simple matter of wiring together the signals and the proper linuxCNC pins to get it to output to the control. It sure was nice to see the numbers moving when we turned the spindle by hand. Then once we were sure the encoder was working complete with index pulse and everything we commenced to setup the scale to match the commanded and actual speed. That was just some number juggling and then we were getting accurate feedback to commanded speed.

The next problem was that the encoder, since it is mounted to the spindle motors shaft with a 2-1 belt drive ratio to the spindle actually outputs TWO index pulses to the control for every one turn of the spindle. That would not do and the original control used a 180 degree cam on the spindle top and a proximity sensor to control when the resolver was at index position apparently. So we needed a way to mask one of the index pulses for the spindle so we can use the single other index pulse for rigid tapping cycle as well as for Spindle orient. Pete from MESANET to the rescue!!! He was able to write a new custom 5i25 firmware upgrade for my card that allowed the program to mask the other index during the evolution of the 180 out proximity sensors high time. It is all very technical and Pete is a freaking genius with this stuff so all we had to do is enact a firmware update for the 5i25 and make some changes in the configuration and lo and behold it worked!! I cannot thank him and Connor and everyone who helped with this issue enough.

Once we got the input from the encoder working properly we decided to then turn our attention to trying to setup a rigid tapping cycle. After reading a bit on the forum we realized how to properly program the cycle and were able to enact a rigid tap cycle for a 3/8 16 thread .75 deep in a simulated air cut.. Then we played with several other cuts to test to make sure the spindle and head movement looked right. I was so pleased to see it actually do a controlled rigid tap with spindle feedback. I have not actually tried to cut a tap in material yet as it got late in the shop and he had to leave for GA but I was so pleased that it actually worked and my efforts on the spindle motor encoder were working.

After I play with rigid tapping on the control and learn to use that properly which is going to be AWESOME to have on the VMC the next step is spindle orient. Connor and several others seem to think this is just a matter of some HAL changes and we can test that soon. That will be a landmark because once we have accurate spindle orient the next step is enacting a toolchange. We are taking baby steps here I know but so far everything has gone rather smoothly and carefully and the results are that I have been able to build a very accurate wonderful machine here that makes some beautiful parts. Once the toolchanger is working properly that will be the end of it until I get my hands on a suitable fourth axis rotary unit. I fully intend to have fourth axis and hopefully a renishaw probe on this machine as soon as possible. This will really bring it into it's own and rival any of the HAAS machines I have run at places I have worked or other similar machines. I could not be happier with the Cincinatti Arrow 500 I have here, the MESANET cards I chose to use, LinuxCNC which is dead reliable and amazingly configurable as well as my decision to gut the machine and start over with brand new motors, drives, cables, etc. etc. I cannot thank enough all of the kind folks who have helped me along the way. Now I am actively looking for a suitable turning center to work on and do the same basic thing.

I just got some more orders for my custom designed droop compensating scope riser rails and some other parts I need to make so I am going to get back out there and work. I will update here more as the machine takes shape and we get spindle orient working as well as the toolchanger setup. Connor has apparently got a full blown working simulation of the toolchanger setup ready to test once the orient is reliably working. This is really getting exciting around here now. Peace

Pete

[rwskinner]

Sounds like things are looking up for you Pete! I want some video of that beast running!!
Your going to love it when you get the tool changer going.

Say, I have to ask, why didn't you mount the encoder to the spindle instead of the motor?

Richard

[pete from TN]

Sounds like things are looking up for you Pete! I want some video of that beast running!!
Your going to love it when you get the tool changer going.

Say, I have to ask, why didn't you mount the encoder to the spindle instead of the motor?

Richard

Richard,
Hey thanks for the kind words man. We are getting there with this machine. It is running very very well and I am actually making parts with it as we speak here. I put the encoder on the spindle motor both because that is where the original resolver was and also because it is just easier there is not really a good place to put the encoder on the spindle and even if you did you would have to setup some kinda belt drive for it anyways with the power drawbar setup and the dual timing belt system that drives the spindle there is just not too many places to put it. Besides if it worked for Cincinatti putting it on the motor I don't see why it won't work for me LOL.. I am really loving this machine it is just so damn precise and powerful. I have spent a good bit of time working in some local shops recently and they all had new HAAS machines. This machine feels much like running one of those now and it has a better graphical representation of the part and toolpaths and I love the fact that I can add fourth axis, probing, etc etc without having to reach DEEP into my pocket. Hope you are well my friend. Thanks again for all the help with the modbus on my RF45. Peace

Pete

[rwskinner]

Understood Pete. For some reason I thought you stated the original was spindle driven. You are right, no good place on the spindle for mine either with the PDB and stuff in the way.
Mine has been up and running good since I fixed the ATC and added the low air pressure lock out. I beefed it up some while I was at it.

I've been doing lots of nick knack stuff after work and on the weekends and making pretty good coin. Mostly on custom work for Older welding machines like the SA200 / SA250's for belt drives and governor rebuilds and working on some diesel conversion kits for a buddy.

Good luck with it all. Stay in touch!

Richard

[slowlearner]

Pete,
It sounds like you are real close now. Yes we do want to see a video of the tool change and rigid tapping. I am now convinced that is what I need to do to my sabre 750. Do you have a preference on the brand turning center you are looking for? How large of a machine would you like to have?
Type later,
Scott