Are you glad to have bought a Chinese made CNC Router? - Page 3


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  1. #41
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    For us in Australia, the "free shipping" they throw in becomes VERY expensive on the Australian side. When the guy's in China offer "free shipping", they book in the shipment as LCL container load, and have it loaded onto a vessel bound for Oz. That means, the container is shared with other customers. They only pay to place it onto a vessel, you pay to get off at the destination, plus all other handling. For my 1336 router, it cost them US$500 be FOB at the port in China. Once it arrives in the Oz port, customs and AQIS clearance has to be done seperately, i.e. the shipment is split up into individual customers. They do this by putting each shipment into a seperate container, have it cleared from the wharf, transported seperately to a clearance agent, have it custom and AQIS cleared, then released for collection. If you share a container, YOU PAY for a forklift and manpower to haul your 2 ton machine out of the shared container at the wharf, and placed into your own clearance container. You pay for renting that OWN container, until you collect your shipment at the clearance agent. A LOT of extra costs.

    Next cost driver, is the collection and handling of the shipping papers. These costs all add up. Don't let them courier the papers to the shipping agent in Australia, and then have your clearance agent request it from the shipping line agent. Get the router manufacturer to courier the original shipping docs directly to you, you select your clearance agent, and send them the papers, no fees involved then.

    If they offer free shipping or not, insist on FCL container FOB port in China. That means you have your own unshared container, they pay until it's on the vessel, they insure it. Pay the difference between LCL and FCL, usually around $500 to $800 for a 20ft container. This way, your own container gets used all the way to the clearance yard. You pay more for FCL, but you save a LOT when clearing an FCL, than clearing an LCL.

    Arrange your collection so that once your shipment is cleared, your router is pulled out of the container, directly onto your collection truck. Don't pay for removing it, and later again, for picking it up onto your collection truck.

    I have prior experience with these processes, I saved more than $3000 on a second router shipment, the first one went as per their method, on the Australian side, there where a gazillion, "local charges", "collection charges", handling charges", you have no control over it. The second import, 2 months later, same router, same Chinese company, same Ozzie clearance agent, was $3000 cheaper !!



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    This is one of the best pieces of advice anyone will ever receive. Saying that there is free shipping of your goods from China to Australia is very sneaky by the manufacturers. I paid approx. $6,000 to get my 8' x 4' machine from China to my door, all the while having the manufacturer tell me that the shipping will be free. Don't be fooled into thinking that there is a cheap solution for freighting your goods. There isn't. If I had my time again, I would do exactly what HobbyCAD did the 2nd time. I would have appreciated this knowledge.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Andre09 View Post
    This is one of the best pieces of advice anyone will ever receive. Saying that there is free shipping of your goods from China to Australia is very sneaky by the manufacturers. I paid approx. $6,000 to get my 8' x 4' machine from China to my door, all the while having the manufacturer tell me that the shipping will be free. Don't be fooled into thinking that there is a cheap solution for freighting your goods. There isn't. If I had my time again, I would do exactly what HobbyCAD did the 2nd time. I would have appreciated this knowledge.
    Andre, that shipping cost is charged by the shipping company and the destination port agent, I have no idea if our forwarder join this sneaky thing, but we are also quoted as free shipping from our forwarder. So actually the shipping company transmit the risk and bad reputation to the manufactures but the real beneficiary is them... you can ask some forwarder friend if you don't believe my words... We can only recommend the friends who want to purchase router from China, to require the final destination charges before purchase, expecially in LCL way and when the goods volume is bigger than 12CBM, to prevent the overcharge when receive the machine...

    Website: http://quickcnc.diytrade.com


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    I think that the manufacturer needs to bear some responsibility because they are the people who organise the shipping. It is there business to know what happens to their product when it gets shipped to the customer. You can't just throw your hands in the air and say, well we don't know what happens after the crate leaves the factory.

    If you are honest and you don't know about the final costs of shipping for the customer, you should not promote the idea that the shipping is free.

    At the end of the day, the shipping has to be paid for and one way or another,its coming out of the purchasers pocket.. I prefer knowing up front, rather than having the feeling that someone is extorting me after its too late to pull out...



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    We never throw our hands in the air and we want to save the shipping cost for the customers too. We are in the same time knowing the shipping cost trick as you, so after the customers' reflections we discover, wow it is not single shipping company doing that, it is most of them. So now when the customer order machine every time we give them the same reminding, the free shipping cost in LCL way is absolutely a trick!! You can ask the other friends who buy our machines after you to see if we have discussion about it or not. We don't want to make too much explanations cause we did has some responsibility on this, but the others have the right to know the truth, and it is unfair to ruin the Chinese manufactures' reputation because of the shipping companies' extortion.

    Website: http://quickcnc.diytrade.com


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    Can anyone tell me what the grey tabletop plastic material on the routers are called? Where can I order sheets of it in Australia, I want to modify a vacuum table top.

    Thanks.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Carter View Post
    We never throw our hands in the air and we want to save the shipping cost for the customers too.
    Rick, my apologies if you think I blamed the China manufacturing companies for bad shipping. It is the importers duty to check out final landed shipping costs. But it is you guy's out there that instruct your forwarding companies "WHICH METHOD" to ship. The shipping companies only do what your forwarder company instruct them, they make no selection, so to say they are guilty of "tricks" is also wrong. You guy's instruct the forwarders what to do, that is the problem. Neither the China side forwarder, nor the shipping company has any dealings with the buyers, you manufacturers are the only ones "instructing" them.

    What I do blame the manufacturing companies for, is quoting the words "free shipping" to the buyer. It gets interpreted as "free shipping, from factory to door". You should advertise "FOB LCL SHIPPING paid for". Don't use the words "FREE". Also wrong is quoting a price, like "$10,000, including shipping". You should state exactly what the shipping method included in the price is.

    People importing CNC machine are not shipping experts, they don't know what all the jargon means.

    Hopefully these posts will make them aware of all the steps and charges involved.



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    Hi

    Just thought I'd share some rules about buying anything chinese, I just purchased a 4x8 machine with 8 tool ATC, 7.4KWspindle, LNC contol, AC Servo Drives + Ball screw on all axis. Due to arrive in a month

    This is not my first purchase from China, have purchase a number of chinese machines for different tasks and deal with Chinese companies daily.

    1-Do your research and find out what you want, don't expect the sales people to guide you.
    2-Find the manufacturer, China has a N number of actual manufacturers and N x 10 number of Agents for these manufacturers. This is due to the fact that there are still a number of manufacturers who don't have an English speaking sales team or don't try and sell to export. So anyone that can speak English can become the de-facto middlemen and portray themselves as the "Manufacturer" Beware.

    3-Get pictures, not only overall, but details of the machine ? Guide rails, Frame ...
    Before (from existing machines), during the construction of yours and videos of it running before shipping

    4-Get pictures of the factory, see how clean/dirty it is, you have to understand some of the low end manufactures will build your CNC in a souped up shed, in the country side !

    5-Don't pay all upfront, try and pay the last 50% once it leaves china or when it arrives in Australia

    6-Don't buy the cheapest. You have to understand how the chinese operate, if you ask for the cheapest prices they will find ways to build it for an incredibly low price, but they are not magicians, quality, materials will also be the cheapest, worst you can find.
    Lucky for us Good chinese quality is still cheaper than the equivalent western quality.

    For example I got quoted a 4x8 CNC from China biggest and I was told best CNC manufacturer, $45K USD for a basic model.

    Thanks

    Nick



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    I got a 4'x'8 cnc plasma from china and I don't remember off the back of my hand what the name of the manufacture was, but it was a peice of garbage. The guide rails weren't even straight and the frame wasn't ground or shimmed. Total garbage cheap loud motors, I've never had a bad experience like this with any machine I've ever looked at or owned and it could be because all my other machines are U.S.A. made or jap made machines. We got this chinese turd up and going and it performed terribly, extremely low tolerances even for a plasma cnc. Which I've seen plasma cnc's hold .001" tollerances and this chinese garbage was pushing .05" tollerances and that is completely worthless to me. So I sold the garbage off to some dumb hobbyist and took a big loss and thought it was more of a toy or gimmick then a peice of machinery. Then we bought a 1993 cincinnati 1700 watt laser for a smoking deal and have had a excellent experience with this machine. The cincinnati gives us parts within .003" and thats what we needed, all I can say is you get what you pay for and that's not really all that true because what I paid for the chinese machine was a little over 1/3 of the cost of the cincinnati. No comparrison with the sales and tech people, with the chinese garbage they could'nt help me at all they had a hard time finding someone who could even speak english. I can't even tell you the ammount of dropped calls that I had waiting on the phone for some tech support, absolutely pathetic. So it all boiled down to my cincinnati totally outperformed itself with flying colors and the tech support and help was 1million times better then anything in china. I didin't have to worry about getting ripped off either, the machine was right in front of me and I could see it perform. Loaded it on my big flatbed trailer and took off, not having to worry if it was going to make to my post office or not. Smooth sailing when you buy local owned and U.S.A. made machinery, mighty sweet deals out there.



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    Smile Always good to have a contrary point of view

    But you will notice that the knockers very rarely name the supplier. Probably because a lot of these type of posts are fantasy. Have to admire the Patriotism!
    Just saying.

    Chap who was interested in buying our Chinese made CNC Router came into work the other day to test the machines capabilities at cutting Acrylic. We were blown away by how well it cut. Beautiful Smooth Flowing Arcs, Nice Sharp Corners. He was so impressed that he is buying the machine!

    I am aware that there are a few dodgey machines coming out of China, but our experience with the machines supplied by Jinan Quick CNC Router Company has been excellent. I am only familiar with Excitech and Jinan Quick CNC, but very happy with the build quality of both brands.

    You can buy a manual tool change Quick CNC Router 1200 x 2400 with 3 KW Spindle for under 10K landed in Australia. Excellent value for money!

    Rocket.



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    Angry I'm not happy

    Hi,

    Last edited by bananafish; 05-11-2010 at 04:40 AM.


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    Default Wow! What a let down!

    Bananafish, What ails you?

    Last we heard from you was that Excit... were going to replace the machine you bought.

    Why are you not happy?

    Rocket.



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    Default Trip To China

    Hi all being watching for awhile now and just like to say that i have just returned from Jinan China were i went to look at the factory's and see for myself who had the best operation.(and if they actually existed)
    Well it was a real eye opener as far as Excitech goes they defanatly have a great setup. They make all their own tables and definatly take the whole proccess from start to finish.
    As far as tigertec goes they havent brought out Excitech they have an amercain partner and solely do international sales.
    At the moment they buy in all there components and simple put them together. They are real organised and will grow in years to come.
    There are meant to be 70 odd manufactures in this area and i only seen a few but what there web site shows and what they are really like is chalk and cheese.
    Some of the conditions are shocking and the working areas a real mess so cut them from my list.
    Unfortunately didn't catch up with Taney (but enough good comments about him on these post to make your own decision)

    I am a present looking at buying a machine and going through heaps of research after being there the biggest is i guess the control systen we are looking at the Syntec as the machine is wood work (moulds etc) 1500 x 3000x 350 atc etc or the Osai control system with the adding of the Two Axis head (turn into 5 axis on 3 axis machine)
    The programming is the issue but will keep u all posted on the progress.

    Will follow up later on the good companies i visited and more about them
    one thing to realize is most of the company's are really selling to domestic market and the quality of these machines are heaps lower than the international ones,and it is these company's that are trying to get into the international marked and just haven't got the experience or backup so be warned the cheapest isn't always the best.

    Last edited by chev55; 05-12-2010 at 12:03 AM.


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    It's been 6 month, I'm still waiting......



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    Bananafish,

    If Excitech doesn't come through, could you sell your machine locally and get another one through Taney from JinanQuickCNC?

    Just an idea,

    Shannon.



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    I agree with Shannon.

    Bananafish - as i recall - there is nothing wrong with your machine other than the gantry height is not suitable for your intended use?

    You have waited six months for the clowns at Excit.. to replace your machine. IMO they are full of empty promises ( nothing new in my experience with them! ). It aint gonna happen!

    If you list your machine for sale on the Forum here at the same price you paid all up for it - i would be surprised if it does not sell. I had about 4 different people interested in my 2400 x 1200 machine. It is now sold.

    Chev55, very interested in seeing your observations of the different businesses in China. Very much a pity that you did not meet with Taney.

    Could it be that along with Taney, a lot of the smart people left Excit... and formed Tigertech? May explain the lack of service from Excit... nowadays. Pity because they were an excellent business.

    From your name it appears you have an interest in old Chevys? Do you own any? If so, how about posting some pics?

    Rocket.



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    Thanks, Shannon and rocket
    Luckily,I could make contact with Jerry on Skype 2 days ago.
    I'm waiting for his final answer for the solution. Keep fingers crossed.



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    Hi Rocket
    Yer its really a different world in china and will keep all up to date with progress.
    The girls at tigertech did leave Exitech and started the new company it is a shame because Exitech factory is really outstanding,but i think they just don't care to much, its more about the volumes they are selling.(which will affect them soon if they don't improve their service)
    Anyway dreams of a Chev are still there but due to own business and 5 kids its still on the old ONE DAY ! But do own a couple of Harley s which get me away from it all when ever i get the chance.

    Will post again soon about a few other company's that would be reliable to deal with.



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    Default Built like brick .... house, but has issues

    I bought a 2x3ft router with all the trimmings about 8 months ago.

    First off, I understand that the way these guys actually work is a bit foreign to us westerners as far as a business model is concerned. It's more like one large co-operative. There is a central sourcing and purchasing section, one huge warehouse. Then there are the individual builders in their shops who draw from the central warehouse. Sales and marketing are separate pieces, shipping sections etc... One huge big happy family. Finances are also of a pooled nature. They effectively slice out all middle men as we understand it, hence the cheap prices - apart from the low labour costs.

    It was really easy to order and pay for the machine. Shipping costs where very low and arranged by manufacturer!!!. Email communications was good. Paid in full upfront. Then the problems started.

    It was shipped halfway around the world and ended up 1000km from where I live. The local shippers where a real headache & real leeches. The manufacturer was very helpful and got it sent back. Needles to say it cost them all their profit and then some. Kudos to them, they took responsibility no argument. It arrived two months late - the crating all banged up but machine was fine.

    Within the first month X axis stepper driver packed up. Shipping a replacement no problem, but the manufacturer now loaded the freight so it was cheaper just to buy a new one locally. Type3 was a real challenge to setup and required a few back and forths - finally getting an English manual.

    The control panel was nicely wired, well labeled. The table was 2mm out of alignment front to back 0.5mm left the right. The water cooled spindle also. There was no cooling system for the spindle, so had to make one. The machine is very heavily built. I found the spindle to be very smooth running and very quite with plenty of power, quite impressed but it has not really worked hard yet. Pity it was wired 3 speed, full bore, trickle and stop. Full speed control capability seems there, but not wired right? Perhaps somebody can help me out with this one? Lots of other issues but enough of that.

    The long and short of it, a very good set of castings. Be prepared to spend time getting things right and don't be in a hurry. It is always a tradeoff, buy a good local machine at three times with little commissioning hassles or pay much less but spend the time fixing it.

    Next time, I not pay in full up front if I can help it!



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    Metalmog You picked the right company to deal with.
    which one is that?



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Are you glad to have bought a Chinese made CNC Router?

Are you glad to have bought a Chinese made CNC Router?