JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland


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    Default JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland

    Hi all

    I recently purchased 9060b from Jcut, and Decision was based on good feedback on here, nice spec and videos in youtube.
    MY intention is to share my worries and experiences regarding process of getting it from China to home and running. I believe its helpful to others who are thinking about to buy machine from china. At least I have tried to dig out all possible information from various places.

    Reason to go this way was that I have planned to get router with light metal capabilities for some time. So I put my existing diy-machine to local "ebay" and it went really fast, which i didn't really expected... After short calculation of materials like Aluminum profiles, screws, leads spindle, t-slot profile etc. it came to fact that money wise risk of trying out was not too bad, and doing all from raw stock materials is very long process. I checked out also choices like Raptor from Canada and some others from UK and Germany. They are nice but after all they still need lots of additional parts over frame kit.

    I have Germany branded but Chinese made manual lathe and milling machine, which have been proven to be good value. Most of issues in beginning was related to excess paint and filler between different parts, which made truing of axes to 90 degrees impossible. After cleaning up and proper assembly all fitted together nicely. So I´m not expecting all to go totally problem free, but I expect issues are only few and solvable with reasonable effort.

    My configuration to Jcut machine is
    2.2kw spindle
    200mm z working height
    Water spray
    DSP
    Tool height setter
    Tools etc.. but I really don't have exact idea about what 3 boxes of tools means, but I hope to gets something usefull

    JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-jcut-6090b-png

    Well anyway I'm really positive on this stage based on specs, price and other people experiences on JCUT and dealing with Mandy.

    Mandy did confirm all agreed details very carefully in emails so on that perspective its clear, but they could make some more detailed explanation and pics+specs to their web pages regarding different options.

    Payment is bank transfer to their account, no problem to agree smaller payment on order and rest when machine is ready to shipping. Bit exiting but after contacting them via different routes I encouraged to make payment. Payment contacts from Mandy was almost OK and it was normal business to fill up payment to web-bank. Sending screenshot of transfer details to Mandy was enough for them.

    Shipping is free alongside ship in receiving harbor, and my part of deal is to handle local fees.. This is getting bit interesting within latest turns.
    Initially I asked about receiving logistics company in Helsinki and I got one address which supposed to be their partner. I called them and asked for my part fo shipping costs, they gave me clear list of different things and fees in harbor was about 380euros +vat. 380€ is including all costs from shared container etc. costs for similar weight and size of package, which was in range of my expectation. After that I confirmed JCUT that shipping is OK.

    Now I received copy of bill of lading and there is different shipper mentioned, after asking for price they just told not possible to say since Chinese tend to give some "special orders" on those. Lady just said that she would recommend to handle shipping from here instead doing this... Well shipment is on its way and too late to change it... Well just hope its not going to be some insane cost added with "special instructions". I think I´ll know within 2-3 weeks

    Similar Threads:
    Last edited by hokkaju; 08-20-2016 at 03:23 PM.


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    Default Re: JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland

    Just receive confirmation from shipper. Local costs are 370€ + vat. Which will sum to about 500 usd. So luckily wasn´t any "special instructions" as local handler warned me about. Shipping was operated trough Nordicon and Cosco in my case.. ETA to helsinki port is 21st September.

    Last week I flashed traffic camera accidentaly, and today I got warning note instead of 150€ fine.
    Well what Can I say.. today seems to be day of relief to me



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    Default Re: JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016

    So package is received. Delivery costs from port to home was about 580€ ( ~650 $) total, so I guess pretty good.

    Package included Richauto A11S Dsp, and things in picture. Machine feets are my own.
    JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-parts-jpg

    1st modification was to add adjustable machine foots, I have drain is my garage so floors are drafted.
    2nd modification was to make right side panel detachable and build shelf to watertanks.

    JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-jcut-jpg

    1st bigger issue was with T-slot table. Aluminum profiles are not fixed very well to chassis. about 1/3 of screws "phillips portion" or cross was drilled away and screw was visibly open. So my profiles were more glued with silicone instead screws.
    Anyway I after looking this more detailed I made decision that I must disassemble table and really see is structure below ok.
    After re-tapping few holes I got suspicious that guys have tried to do self tapping with those tiny screws >M4x12 they have used.

    JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-table-unfixed-jpg

    after looking more detailed to profile I found they are bit bended, so unless you screw them really well from both grooves another edge is pointing upwards about 1mm.

    JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-profile-bended-png

    So I have 2 choices, I can drill and re-tap all m4 holes and add crossbars and side bracket to really fix all profiles properly.

    JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-crossbars-jpg

    Or replace current ones with example minitec ones, or some other solution..

    JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-minitec-jpg

    Have you been happy with your T-slot table, any experience with similar issues, and what solution you have done??

    Last edited by hokkaju76; 09-25-2016 at 12:43 PM.


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    Default Re: JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016

    Hi hokkaju76.

    Many thanks for your post because I am now at a point to buy the same machine, may be from JCUT, and your info very very helpful.

    I thought about the bad original alu t-slot table and decided like you that the easiest way to put another more rigid plate
    JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-tnp4030_mittel1-jpg
    than to bother with installing a new sidebar to cast iron bed.

    By the way, the surface on which the t-slot profile is lying is milled? It is good to check the surface of the dial indicator clamped to the spindle.
    My other question is:
    1) The surfaces to which is bolted the HIWIN rails is milled?
    2) What is the pitch of ball screws - 5 or 10 mm?
    3) Ball screws have end supports on both sides
    JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-ballscrewassembly-jpg
    or one side directly connected to motor shaft with flexible coupling?
    JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-s-l1000-jpg

    Regards

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-img_4622-800x600w-jpg  


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    Default Re: JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016

    Some progress on this weekend.

    1st task was to balance frame to horizontal. Since its cast iron its better to to keep it straight. I needed to put little material between "leg portion" of machine and cast frame.
    High sensitive level is good for this.


    After that I measure flatness related to spindle.


    For some unknown reason there was noticeable "bumb" in front of frame. It was visible with machinist vice, and measuring height with caliber to guides.
    After some head scratching and digging tools available. I found tiny boring bar and put it to spindle, 0.4mm later frame looks pretty flat.



    I´m not really final with decision what to use for t-slot table, anyway I´ll attach 5 cross support where to fix final table.
    I´m thinking to use original profiles but just screw them properly to those cross bars. I´m thinking to get away with them when unsupported distance is short enough.
    If not company Isel from Germany sells PT 50 and Pt 25 t-slot profiles, which seems to be nicest and quite cost efficient.. But its again at least 500-600€ cost to get those. Anyway its Happy Tapping from now on, if go on with existing 8 profiles, 5 crossbars and if put 4 screw each... 160 screws...



    titan80, here some answers to your questions.

    1. Surfaces for rails are milled. and Yes sliders have text Hiwin and its also Hiwin colors.
    2. Ball-screws Y=2010, X2010, Y1605
    3. Ball-screws are supported properly. Fixed end is not looking same as those "std parts" but there is 2 bearings, so its possible to shim it.
    I´ll measure backlash after I´ll get so far. I was bit looking on those as I take away covers, but I believe I can manage with those. If not, simply make new block with lathe.
    If you buy those block from Ebay you most likely get them with deep groove bearings instead AC-bearings. (at least it happened to me)

    Generally Speaking so far I´m feeling quite happy with my machine, nothing so far that I cannot (at least try) to solve. And I believe I´m little more accurate by nature than people in average.
    This is what I have paid for. After I have done my tweaks I trust I have nice machine with overall reasonable money.





    But in end some Positive remarks.
    Electronics are looking rather nice, starting up was just fill spindle cooling tank and turn machine ON!
    Though I´ll wire pump to On-Off switch, when machine is on, spindle pump is on. Its bit too poor way to have plug to wall system.



    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-frame-horizontal-jpg   JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-tasomaisuus-jpg   JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-jyrsitty-runko-jpg   JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-tukirakenteet-jpg  

    JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-screwsupport-jpg   JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-electronics-jpg  


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    Default Re: JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016

    hokkaju76

    I like your method to leveling bed by selfmilling.
    Idea to use rigid sidebar under t-slot profile is very good if use machin tapping with reversible tapping head:


    As I will the same procedure I think to buy such tapping head - always useful.

    1) What is the thickness and material of your sidebars? They milling with high tolerance? Where did you get these?
    2) The material of gantry & risers is cast iron too? Or cast alu?
    3) May I ask you to put here overall specs for your machine with cost you paid for?

    Regards



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    Default Re: JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016

    Thanks, I hope self milling is working well also. If not then its quite big job to strip everything apart and take parts to milling machine for re-dimensioning.
    I just thought about that also, risk is anyway small. If needed just take another 0.5mm and my experiment is wiped away.

    Tapping heads are quite expensive, I have settled to use cordless drill with small taps and manual for bigger threads.

    answers:
    1. material for crossbars is 80x20 aluminum profile, machinery grade 6081 if remember right. Generally if just cut pieces from same bar they are very close each others regarding thickness.
    2. Machine gantry and risers are cast aluminium.
    3. Std 6090B, with DSP, 200mm Z-height, and Water Channel.
    "Water Channel" = stainless "bowl" or "sink" or "tub", anyway its inch wider, longer and half inch higher than table. Its used to gather water and chips instead letting them fall freely. Kit also contains another similar aquarium pump than spindle coolant and flexible hoses to spindle. its not 100% comparable to what I consider as traditional cutting fluid system. I think It could be used with pure water or water + small amount of windshield washing fluid or similar. Anyway I believe its intended for non circulating fluid usage, which makes sense if you cut wood and Aluminum with same machine you get also wood debris into circulation.

    4. I payed their std price. If you really must know accurate amount I rather send private message.



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    Default Re: JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016

    Thanks.

    answers:
    1. material for crossbars is 80x20 aluminum profile, machinery grade 6081 if remember right. Generally if just cut pieces from same bar they are very close each others regarding thickness.
    This is a solid profile?
    Are you going to mill them after stable mount to cast iron base?


    4. I payed their std price. If you really must know accurate amount I rather send private message.
    It's not necessary, thanks.

    Regards.



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    Default Re: JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by titan80 View Post
    Thanks.

    This is a solid profile?
    Are you going to mill them after stable mount to cast iron base?
    .
    Yes its solid profile. I just manage to fix all to frame in Sunday evening. I´ll measure what is end result next weekend. I don´t know yet what is needed to do... I hope I can get away with minor shimming or something like that. I made cross bars 70cm wide so it will support table properly, but its wider than machine x movement.

    I also made up my mind with t-slot material, 10m of 8016 + 1.25m 40x16 + cutting + 100 t-nuts and screws about 240€ including vat.
    Aluprofil.com Shop: Profil 8 80x16 schwer @ Profile 8

    Isel offered me 2x Pt50 20x375 length 1.25m t-nut profile with price 788€ and it didn't include even t-nuts and screws.. Though their plate should be very nice, but its not in any proportion to machine purchase price.

    Well I anyway have PVC sheet to cut stripes and glue them to table top surface, which also allows me to do final surfacing with milling if needed.



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    Default Re: JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016

    Yes Isel is very expensive, but "Aluprofil.com Shop: Profil 8 80x16 schwer @ Profile 8" have a good cost - cheaper than I can find here in Russia.
    So I want to ask a Chinese supplier of the machine to deliver a more rigid profile.
    Thanks. Regards.



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    Default Re: JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by titan80 View Post
    Yes Isel is very expensive, but "Aluprofil.com Shop: Profil 8 80x16 schwer @ Profile 8" have a good cost - cheaper than I can find here in Russia.
    So I want to ask a Chinese supplier of the machine to deliver a more rigid profile.
    Thanks. Regards.
    I suggest you also order yours with all bearings and such...


    So while machining frame I noticed my spindle is waaay off being perpendicular.. Well I thought Its bot big deal to align it properly..
    I have dial with about 70mm tool so I just measure it to have almost 1mm issue. Which is awful if you are looking to get nice surface or try to drill any kind of holes with machine.
    Well then just open screws... One screw has no threads at all and Spindle can be turned to be only worse. NICE !





    After taking spindle and Z-axis into parts findings are.
    -Missing another bearing and nut from Z-screw. Also bearing is 608-Z, so not best choice.
    - Spindle holder and Z-plate holes are not really with same distance to each others.







    If you look upper right hole you can see shadow of something which should be fitting together. Considering some holes I must assume they are drilled manually. Shape is so oval and direction is with angle.



    After more deeper looking I found Z-plate holes for spindle holder are really quite randomly located.
    Was thinking first that simply drill new bigger holes in correct locations and it should be OK. I already fixed setup to my mill, and just before I realized why I have only 1mm measured in spindle since I have about 2mm in plate?

    Well re-measure more dimension and also holes for rails are in strange angle and its compensating another issue for almost half. After little more measuring I felt so confuced to plus and minus all dimensions together for right compensation that I thought its easier to just machine new Z-plate....

    Chips are going to fly before my piece of *** is in one piece.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-spindle-direction-jpg   JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-z-bearing-jpg   JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-spindleholder-holes-jpg   JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-hole-location-jpg  



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    Default Re: JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016

    This is a terrible deal!
    It looks like the whole machine will have to rebuild. And what kind of money all this will cost? What do you think about?
    Thank you once again for this thread.
    When to wait for the next revelations? if I understand correctly - you can do this machine only on weekends?



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    Default Re: JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016

    Quote Originally Posted by titan80 View Post
    This is a terrible deal!
    It looks like the whole machine will have to rebuild. And what kind of money all this will cost? What do you think about?
    Thank you once again for this thread.
    When to wait for the next revelations? if I understand correctly - you can do this machine only on weekends?
    Well I mentally prepared in worst case to just have package of components before doing order. So in a way Im not even really deeply dissapointed - yet. Of cource things can turn to better or worse. Truing of axes is still pending also run out of spindle is something im worry about. I hope Im lucky at least with spindle.

    So far add on costs:
    Crossbars. 110 euros
    New table material 315 euros
    AC bearings + sealings for Z. ...~40 euros which i think i have left over from other project.

    Now direct material costs are about 500 euros, which I hope is more than half of needed. Labor costs in my case can be neglected since i can take them as part of hobby. But in case i wouldnt have capability to do drawing and machining myself costs would increase dramatically.

    Yes im working weeks on another city so I have limited time to spend on this, luckily I dont have fixed schedule.

    Last edited by hokkaju76; 10-09-2016 at 02:46 AM.


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    Default Re: JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland

    Some new measurements.
    I checked perpendicularity of Z movement to table. And Findings are. Z pivoted to Y: less than 0.05mm for 200mm
    But Z pivoted to X about 1.2mm for 200mm, so back to normal..

    After some disassembly I think I figured out....



    If compare thickness of support ribs seems column has been slightly tilted when doing machining. Or its X-slider is misaligned.



    Need to try out can it be compensated from tilting X slider in rails. Or do I need to just machine that rib away and tilt X- column via its fixing bolts.

    Mean while I have been drawing some new parts to compensate missing Z-bearing and slide. And while need to go trough this way It crossed my mind that Z is having only one 70mm sledge and blade is furthest position about 300mm off. So pivot ratio is way off 1:2, I guess its quite ok to light cuts. But its pretty easy to do in same time.


    Little tight but with this I still have about 180mm Z- movement left, which is still ok.

    I figured that doing AC-bearing conversion at same si not more big deal.





    I managed to start some parts but all will take couple weekends. Doesn't matter I need to wait extra Z-blocks from China.

    Happy ending for my weekend. I have seen some reports that some of these 2.2Kw spindles can have quite run-off.
    But Mine is not moving my 0.01mm dial in any noticeable amount. Which is relief to me


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-x-slider-jpg   JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-z-column-jpg   JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-z-slider-jpg   JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-xy-ac-blocks-jpg  

    JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-z-ac-block-jpg   JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-spindle-runout-jpg   JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-z-bearing-jpg  


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    Default Re: JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland

    What did the company have to say about all this. They are sometimes on this forum I believe. I would have thought they would have piped in by now. Your problem seems strange for a machine that should have been made by another CNC. This kinda of stuff is what everyone fears about buying a China CNC.



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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AndySS View Post
    What did the company have to say about all this. They are sometimes on this forum I believe. I would have thought they would have piped in by now. Your problem seems strange for a machine that should have been made by another CNC. This kinda of stuff is what everyone fears about buying a China CNC.

    No contact to them or from them. I don't think parts are cnc-machined, since hole locations are marked with pen and then holes are drilled off marks.

    Well in beginning I thought about complain to them. But then I asked myself what is really possible?

    Return machine - NO, I would have to send it with my expense and good question will I get new back.
    Ask money back - NO, I cannot see it happen..
    Ask for spares - NO, why to ask more failed parts. And asking new casted frame would be difficult to explain.

    So, I simply decided to save myself trouble and sadness of fighting with them. End result will anyway be same, I need to fix it by myself.
    I want to think that I still got good selection of usable components where to start building. I'm feeling less pissed off thinking this way.

    But if I wouldn't have capability to do needed things and parts myself, this would have turned money wise into disaster.
    I'm just hoping that fine tuning X-Y perpendicularity wont give me me any massive new surprises.
    Otherwise I think I got idea how save situation, though its quite lot of time and effort.

    Last edited by hokkaju76; 10-22-2016 at 02:33 AM.


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    Default Re: JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland

    Without installation and fine tune not do any machine. Even the machine from a reputable manufacturer. All industrial CNC machines that I bought required it. Manufacturer's service is always very expensive and often late. Buying a chinese kit of parts for $ 3,000 and subsequent revision by own not a bed choice for hobbyist because in the future it is possible to service the machine oneself.



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    Default Re: JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland

    Small Update.

    I have good experiences before to boost aluminum frames with EG, so I couldn't resist since Z-column was already on table. EG cast thickness is about 15mm.
    Difference is that before knocking it made long high pitch sound like "gling". Now knocking response is shorter "thumb"

    JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-eg-casting-column-jpg

    Machining new parts for Z-block and bearing blocks.

    JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-new-parts-jpg


    Wanky angle between Z-column and X-block was due misaligned holes. Only way z- column could be fitted is bit tilted.
    Only way I could figured to fix it was to locate block hole and then mount Column on top of it, and then press new hole with 8mm mill blade.
    Also added two more bolt locations.

    JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-z-column-holes-concentrity-jpg


    Guide rib is not too tight actually, but I just wonder should take it away and surface Block face again..


    JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-x-block-jpg



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    Default Re: JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland

    Little update... I´m still waiting for extra Z-slides to arrive, so in meantime I started to finalize table structures and install AC-bearing blocks.
    It went pretty smooth, only surprise was that mounting holes were not in 120deg spacing. So needed to mill long holes to have enough adjustment.




    I needed to install x-slide again to fine tune table crossbars height.
    Slide was bit pain to fix, since it took two rounds to find out all points which needed some touch up.
    -Remove guide rib.
    -Add extra fixing holes to Z-column
    -One Ball Screw nut mounting thread was out of location
    -Screw countersunk uneven in different holes, originally different mount of washers and different screw length in different holes.





    During shimming of crossbars I did find out is that 80 x 20mm aluminum bar easily bends about 0.1mm while pressed with hand.
    So I ended up to add another under unsupported ones.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-ac-blocks-jpg   JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-x-slide-jpg   JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-shimming-tablestruct-jpg   JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland-reinforced-crossbar-jpg  

    Last edited by hokkaju76; 11-14-2016 at 09:15 AM.


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    Default Re: JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland

    Hi All

    I am sorry for the delay , I am out of country for business, also for a long time not log into cnczone . supprized to read it today .

    Can you tell me why you change the machine ? it is not suitable for you or ? why not contact me dear ?

    As a manufacturer , we have been trying our best to suitable for most customers requirment , perhaps can not satisfy for every one . please give me your feedback after getting the machine , then we will try our best to solve the questions ok ?

    And if i can not reply here ontime , please write email to me directly , thank you for all

    Mandy



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JCut 6090B purchase Aug 2016 to Finland

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