Experience with carving-cnc.com 6040 router


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    Default Experience with carving-cnc.com 6040 router

    Hi,

    Yesterday I just ordered the 4 axes 6040 router from carving-cnc.com.
    As I understand it, it's the same as the yoocnc ones and the ones sold on ebay.
    Total price (with DHL delivery to Europe) was 2080$.


    Do any of you already have some experience with this "carving-cnc" dealer?

    Is there any interest from other people in it's quality/etc? For then I would document it.

    It's planned to be used mainly for engraving plastics and aluminum. And also to cut some holes in aluminum for panel making. So these should not be strong requests for the mechanical stiffness of the router. This is why we decided to try this cheap chinese one.
    I added the 4th axis, as I'm personally interested to maybe do some woodworking with it.

    Any comments welcome...

    Ah, BTW:
    I asked the dealer, what would be about the delivery time, and he explained, that he first does sent it to HongKong and then from there it is sent to me. Am I the only one who thinks, that this is kinda strange???

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    These units are all the same, and I call b******t on him sending it to China and then sending it out, they ALL come from China. Although possible, I'm not aware of anyone outside China producing these.

    Ok, the good news first, they are really quite good, not great, or extremely accurate, but more than good enough for most purposes. It will be powerful enough for you to do some serious aluminium work. Mine has a 0.8Kw spindle, and I've machined up to 38mm thick aluminium.

    The bad, apart from the price seeming higher than I recall almost of them are, the controller that comes with it is garbage. Complete and utter. They all suffer the same crappy design flaws, and earthing problems, assuming your's hasn't had all the earth lugs cut off that is. I can't express just how rubbish they are. I spent weeks trying to get mine working, and scrapped it.

    I know you've spent a large amount of money, but if you have any form of serious troubles getting the controller working, I would strongly advise you to immediately lodge a paypal complaint, and try to get a partial refund on the controller, and put that towards a Gecko G540.

    These forums are FULL of posts about these controllers, a G540 is the best investment you'll make for your machine and your sanity. If you have problems with it, you could spend months trying to resolve, and in almost all cases, people with the same controller ended up buying a G540, or a Linistepper, or similar.

    cheers,
    Ian

    It's rumoured that everytime someone buys a TB6560 based board, an engineer cries!


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    I didn't order it from ebay. I ordered it directly from their website. And from their website they are located in Bejing (in China). So it is IMHO really strange, that he indicated, that he first sends it from Bejing to HongKong and then to me.

    Hmm, when I think about it, my personal guess would be, that this "yoocnc"-manufacturer is located in HongKong and that every distributor (even the chinese ones) just tell them, they should ship a machine to a customer.



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    The machine arrived today in 2 packets by DHL.
    It really looks, that the heavier the packet the more misused will it be upon transport...

    All in all, the packaging was OK.

    The probe was missing. At first sight, it looks like everything else is there.

    The cables to the steppers look a bit like crap. Don't know, if I will try it with these, or if I should exchange these from the beginning...

    The Control box is really something...:

    * The Emergency-Stop button is a complete joke. After one usage, it literally fell apart. It would anyway not comply with CE rules for an emergency button.

    * The separate 5V cabling for the parallel-port card is also a joke. Just adding a little 5V power supply would have been so easy, and could surely have been bought in china for a very small amount of money...or even integrated into the parallel-card.

    * The designer of the parallel-card should get an award for ignorance!
    They used 74HC chips on the card. This means the card will not work for modern PC parallel ports (for they all have an output level of 3.3V). These 3.3V are within the parallel port specification, because it was defined as 5V-TTL-levels. But they used pure CMOS Chips, which do not interpret 3.3V as high. They should instead have used 74HCT chips. These are TTL-Level compatible and interpret 3.3V as high. I think I gonna resolder some 74HCT types on the board.

    * I think we don't have to discuss the non existing earthing of the control box... ;-) But this I expected from a chinese manufacturer, so no surprise there...

    * The genius of assembler managed to exactly mount the cable holder on the fan of the power supply...;-) Sometimes I really wonder, if they do such things on purpose, as I cannot imagine anyone being that ignorant...

    Ah, BTW. Did I mention the complete lacking of any documentation?
    Especially programming the VFD could be a hard time, without any docs. Will have to look, if I can find any documentation about it online...

    All in all, was about like I expected it from a chinese manufacturer. So up 'til now, no big disappointment (yet).



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    Quote Originally Posted by Helloagain View Post
    The Control box is really something...:

    * The Emergency-Stop button is a complete joke. After one usage, it literally fell apart. It would anyway not comply with CE rules for an emergency button.

    * The separate 5V cabling for the parallel-port card is also a joke. Just adding a little 5V power supply would have been so easy, and could surely have been bought in china for a very small amount of money...or even integrated into the parallel-card.

    * The designer of the parallel-card should get an award for ignorance!
    They used 74HC chips on the card. This means the card will not work for modern PC parallel ports (for they all have an output level of 3.3V). These 3.3V are within the parallel port specification, because it was defined as 5V-TTL-levels. But they used pure CMOS Chips, which do not interpret 3.3V as high. They should instead have used 74HCT chips. These are TTL-Level compatible and interpret 3.3V as high. I think I gonna resolder some 74HCT types on the board.
    The 5v supply is really bad news as it completes an alternate earth path to the parallel cable that can help introduce noise, especially when the spindle is plugged in. Even worse if you fix up the earth on the mains input, from memory that would potentially blow the chip depending on how it's tab is connected. I wouldn't spend any time resoldering IC's, as I'm fairly sure you'll still need to spend ages trying to track down the cause of the lack of control and wild movements, and lock ups, and end up buying a Gecko or Linistepper, or similar. These controllers really are garbage. But, the machines themselves are good value and work quite well once the controller is sorted out.

    cheers,
    Ian

    It's rumoured that everytime someone buys a TB6560 based board, an engineer cries!


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    Lol, actually I'm a professional industrial automation developer. So I have some ambition, to try the original solution (with some changes...).
    I will sure not spend too much time on it. If it doesn't work well, I will buy another board.

    In the mean spare time I had a short look at the 2 pcbs (stepper driver and parallel interface).
    Here is my analysis of them, if anyone is interested:


    Parallel interface board:
    Actually this board doesn't get you much. Actually it makes things worse.
    As I already said, the used 74HC chips are not meant for TTL-level interfacing.
    Due to the PullUps it could work, if your computer really still has TTL outputs, but no newer PC has that. All modern PC chips I've seen so far, drive the parallel port with 5V tolerant 3.3V cmos drivers. And the HC chips need at least 3.5V levels for a high...
    As I said, you could use HCT chips, these wouldn't have these problems.

    The second problem is the driving strength. Neither the used HC, nor the HCT version are strong drivers. So you actually make things worse by using these chips in between your port and the optocouplers, for most parallel port drivers are stronger drivers.

    The third problem. The chips don't have schmitt-trigger inputs.This is why I see absolutely no reason, why to use such chips in between the port and the optocouplers, or even for the inputs (where Schmitt Triggers would have been nice).

    The funniest thing is the third used IC. It's a 74HC14 (hex Schmitt inverter). "Well here are your Schmitt Triggers", some of you might say now. Lol.
    Well, only one inverter of this IC is used. And this one goes to the "PWM IN" pads on the pcb. A short analysis shows, that this port is no PWM IN port, it's an output port. And the stange thing is, the signal goes from the parallel port PIN 17 through a 74HC244 on the 72HC14. So all it does is invert the signal. The Schmitt Trigger feature itself is completely useless, as it is directly been driven by the 74HC244...
    My personal guess is, that they at first really wanted to make a PWN input. For this the Schmitt-Trigger would have made really sense. But to me it seems like later on someone else finished the project and now made it the other way around, which doesn't make sense anymore...

    Really a very strange design. I'm yet still undecided, if I should just drop the card completely, and wire all the signals directly to the optocouplers, or if I should just exchange the two 74HC244 with 74LS244 types.
    For the LS types don't have any problem with the TTL-levels, they additionally have Schmitt-Trigger inputs and the can drive a lot more...
    I think I will go for the 74LS chips, as then I don't have to recable everything...

    I personally think it's bad designing from the beginning. If they would really have wanna make a new design, they should have taken the 74ACT1284 chips, as they are especially designed for interfacing parallel ports, and they are also quite cheap and strong drivers...

    BTW, as there's no documentation and if anyone else is having such a card:
    For the main in and outputs (Dirs, Steps, Probe, PWM and ESTOP) the used parallel pins are indicated on the board. For the unused connector on the bottom left, the wiring is as following (all inputs are PU):
    Pin 13 (together with Probe)
    Pin 12
    Pin 11
    Pin 10 (together with ESTOP)
    Pin 15 (this pin is directly wired to the parallel port, no chip in between!)


    The Stepper Driver:

    I had a look at the datasheet and I discovered the following problems:

    1) The logic power (5V) should be present before the driving power (here 24V). But in this design, it's actually the other way around, as the 5V is generated out of the 24V. This could really be a problem, for if the internal registers don't have settled yet, they can have any state. And if you then put some power on the output stage, the FETs could have any state. In the worst case, this would lead to a shoot through and therefore an immediate death of the chip.
    I think I will just add a separate little 5V power supply which is just always on. Then disconnect the Vin Pin on the LM317(U3) and instead attach this supply directly on the VCC of the drivers. This should solve this problem.

    2) The Reset is also just tied PU to 5V (R8). But this probably isn't that a bad problem as the one before. Maybe I just add a capacitor, for a RC-delay to help things a little.

    3) The heatsink is directly on the chip. This isn't so good, as if the heatsink should get direct electrical contact this could lead to unwanted currents through the substrate. The datasheet says, either connect the heatsink to GND, or isolate it. I will simply put a heat pad in between.

    4) The MO output pin is directly connected to a LED, with a resistor, so that about 4-5mA are flowing. This is bad, as the outputs max rating is 1mA! I will simply disable the LED (remove the Resistor R9 to VCC )

    5) The Clk capacitor is 330pF. This is OK. But if you wanna go to the speed limit of the driver (15KHz), then this could become a problem. So I will simply go to 100pF.

    6) The thing with the Enable signal is really funny. It is intended on the PCB to be driven by an optocoupler. But it hasn't been mounted. And I can also clearly see why. For as it is designed, the Enable signal is on, until the optocoupler is driven. Which means, you actually disable the driver, by driving the optocoupler, and for an enable signal, this surely is rubbish.

    7) The Dir signal optocoupler is a much slower version, than the Step signal one. So one has to make sure, to configure the SW so, that the Dir signal has a profound lead before the Step signal, otherwise some steps will go in the wrong direction.IMHO also the driving Resistor (R13) is quite big with 750Ohms.
    I will give it a try (maybe with a smaller resistor). If it doesn't work, the Dir optocoupler can easily be replace with a 6N137 (just some small fiddling needed).

    But on the positive side, I have to say, that I was quite astonished to see a quite well made current reduction for stepper idling. For this, an extra IC U2 was used (CD14538), which toggles the current to 50% if some delay time since the last step has passed.

    So I will keep you informed...



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    As I was just at resoldering the Stepper Drivers, I recognized, that the Load Resistor (R16) of the Dir optocoupler is very big (4k7). This will result in astronomically long off times. This resistor should be at least 10x smaller.
    If you then configure your SW, to have a delay of 10us between dir and step, it should work.



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    hi,helloagain
    I have enjoyed reading all your comments on the forum the machine.

    I regret that I can not change what.
    Because we as an OEM manufacturer,
    We need to obey the cost requirements of customers (dealers).

    Although they are extremely cheap, but to meet the most basic use.
    We have been looking forward to
    Can YOOCNC better products for everyone to use, low price supply
    Unfortunately, this does not welcomed by the dealer who
    Perhaps it is because they are slightly more expensive a bit.

    The carving-cnc as our agents (as opposed to dealers)
    Their after-sales service is reliable.

    My English is poor
    Very little to the foreign forum. I am glad to see your comments, thank you.



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    thanks aarggh

    G240 need more than two hundred U.S. dollars?

    This is an incredible price.

    If our customers are willing to pay half the price of
    That would be of great change.

    An electronic handle for only $ 135
    Experience with carving-cnc.com 6040 router-q01-3-jpg

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Experience with carving-cnc.com 6040 router-q01-3-jpg  


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    I regret that I can not change what.
    Because we as an OEM manufacturer,
    We need to obey the cost requirements of customers (dealers).
    The cost is surely not the problem! This thing can be made much better without any cent more in cost. You simply have to exchange some values:

    * Take 74LS244 Chips instead of 74HC244 chips! (HC chips are not meant for TTL interfacing. And the parallel port has TTL-Levels!!!)
    * drop the 74HC14. It is useless. You can just put a solderbridge between pin1+2 to still have access to the "PWM Input" pins (although they are outputs, as mentioned...)
    * Use at least 390 Ohm Resistors for the dir optocoupler (R16+R13) or even smaller ones.
    * use 100pF for C1
    * Remove R9 and the red Diode. Nobody needs them anyway
    * use a heat pad instead of heat paste.

    And if you ever plan a redesign, then please:
    * Add a capacitor to GND at the RESET input, for some switch-on delay
    * Please wire the board so, that the Enable will be pulled high, when the optocoupler is driving! Which means connecting the collector to 5V and the enable to the emitter with a pulldown resistor (the internal Pulldown will be far too big for this).
    * add the possibility to drive the 5V supply externally and get rid of the LM317.

    And a nice to have would be (although it would increase the cost a little bit, but not much):
    * Use also a 6N137 for the dir-signal
    * add a transil-diode on the power. This makes sure, the IC can never be damaged due to overvoltage, if the power supply is disconnected and the motor get's manually rotated.


    And for a really good drive (although this mod would cost a little, but still not excessive):
    * Add a P-Fet which switches the power on, only after some delay and also switched it off before the 5V. But this shouldn't be a big problem, if you generate the 5V out of the input power. So then, you can, as you now do use a lm317 for 5V power generation.

    So you see:
    * You can already improve them a lot without any additional cost.
    * You can improve them much, with only minor additional costs.
    * You can make them good, with only small additional costs.



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    Quote Originally Posted by yoocnc View Post
    thanks aarggh

    G240 need more than two hundred U.S. dollars?

    This is an incredible price.

    If our customers are willing to pay half the price of
    That would be of great change.

    An electronic handle for only $ 135
    Firstly, thanks for posting, it's very good to see a supplier online! The G540 is indeed a lot of money, but time is also money, and equipment failure is also money. So most people see $300AU for a G540 as not so much a cost, but an investment, one they can put faith in working out of the box, from day one, over a long working period. And i'm fairly sure anyone wanting to buy the Youcnc controller in the blue case would be quoted at least $200US anyway wouldn't they?

    Unfortunately, the TB6560 drivers supplied with the machines not only don't work out of the box, but also take a lot to get going, and still don't provide any decent level of reliability once they do. It only takes a few days of lost time, or crashes, to far exceed the cost of a G540, or a Lini, or similar.

    I can fully understand the price point, but if it doesn't work, then any price, no matter how low, just isn't worth it. What I would have been happier with, is the option to buy the machine, which is good value, but have the controller costs taken out, so i buy my own controller. I suspect many people would be exactly the same, as invariably I find the vast majority NEVER get the Youcnc controller to work, and end up buying a different controller anyway.

    I think it does a disservice to the Chinese industry to produce better quality machines as time progresses, with controllers that never work when shipped. This is not just my experience, the many. many, many threads and posts here alone are testament to the fact the controller DOES NOT WORK. How are these machines tested? Offering the choice of a price reduction without a controller, or supplied with a better designed controller that can be trusted to work, are the only two options I see.

    By the way, I love the look of the remote pendant, and would possibly buy one just to try, but anyone buying it would have to base the experience on the Youcnc controller to decide if they buy the pendant, and if the controller experience is bad, they won't be inclined to then buy the pendant unfortunately.

    cheers,
    Ian

    Last edited by aarggh; 07-16-2012 at 09:20 PM.
    It's rumoured that everytime someone buys a TB6560 based board, an engineer cries!


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    BTW. for those interested in a more detailed view of my changes:

    This is how, my parallel board now looks like:

    I desoldered the 3 HC chips ans instead soldered two 74LS244 on them. Instead of the third HC, I just put a solder bridge.
    I also additionally populated the connectors for the available unused I/Os, for I willl probabely later add some homing switches.
    The interface works now like a charm on every parallel port!
    I really wonder, why they don't make them like that in the first place...

    This is how my Drivers now look like:


    I did the following:
    * Used a Heat pad.
    * Unmounted U3 and directly connected a wire to it for external 5V Supply.
    * Replaced C1 with a 100pF 0805 capacitor.
    * Exchanged the two resistors R16 and R9 with one another. Like this, the corresponding value for the LED is acceptable (and the LED is still burning), and the resistor value for the Optocoupler is now much lower. The DIR-signal will now have a delay of 15us. This is acceptable for the maximum frequency you can get with this driver anyway.
    But be sure to configure your software, so that it is aware of this 15us delay!
    * I added a 1.5KE30A TVS Diode to the power input to make sure that the voltage can never get beyond the ratings of the chip and destroy it.

    I personally additionally replaced the EL817 with a 6N137. But as said before, this is not really needed.
    With the 6N137 the delay goes down to 50ns.
    But if you also wanna replace the EL817, then do it like that:
    * Desolder the EL817.
    * Take a 6N137 and cut off Pin 7 and Bend pin 8 upwards. then solder it in.
    * Now solder some wire to Pin8 and solder it to 5V anywhere on the board
    * Solder a wire to make a bridge between EN- and DIR-
    * Now Exhange the two DIR-wires on the plug.
    Finished.

    Now it's a decent controller.

    Ah BTW for those interested. The configuration dip-switches are used the following way:
    4: DCY1
    3: DCY2
    2: M1
    1: M2



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Experience with carving-cnc.com 6040 router
Experience with carving-cnc.com 6040 router