IH CNC Mill Conversion Process


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    Default IH CNC Mill Conversion Process

    All,

    I've ordered an IH Mill and the CNC Conversion kit from Gene. Should be here in a month or so. Just trying to learn as much as possible so I'm ready to hit the ground running when it does arrive.

    For those of you who have installed the CNC kit on the IH mill, how difficult was that process? I'm not worried about the electronics box at all - it's the conversion of the mill that has me a little worried.

    Since I have no access to another mill, etc - can it all be done with hand tools? I'm having a hard time finding any info online for the install, so thought I'd ask the list. Gene is working on documentation, but I'm not sure when he's going to be finished with it - he's been working feverishly on a new website from the sounds of it.

    Any info would be greatly appreciated!

    Thanks!

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    there are a few little things to watch out for during the install of the kit.

    1. did you get any of the travel extension portions?
    2. remove the cross support at the base of the z axis ways.
    3.i would remove the little check ball oiler ports and drill and tap these for 1/8 npt ports then you can get some fittings and attach a one shot oiler.
    4. i used 2 one shot oilers one from the screws and one for the ways.
    5.ultimately the settings and documentation for the electrical side is what i found lacking, however, gene is great for support and so is this board. if you read through my posts and follow what i did and learn from my mistakes you'll have it figured out.

    if you have any questions just ask and i'm sure you'll get a bunch of answers.



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    All I can say Is stick to the plan as laid out ! It is relatively straight forward and easy to follow. Measure, measure, then just to be sure measure. It is mostly when modifying or deviating from the system that trouble will befall you. When trouble arises call them first ! After all this is their system now and Most of the loudmouths like myself have the early v-3 or some morphadite rendition and will most likely not know exactly what is intended and lead you astray. True that there is lots and lots of information here and most of it is good strong tested info but you and I mean YOU are responsible for adding the measure of salt to sort out the proper application. So, Join the family, read all of our mistakes, rants, raves, mod's, mistakes, adjustments, did I mention mistakes !
    Huhm, I just figured out what is missing ! Our own Clubhouse !

    Don
    IH v-3 early model owner


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    Thanks, guys! I'm sure I'll be asking Gene and this list plenty of questions - it's good to know there is help just a keyboard/phone away!

    To answer a few questions:
    Here's what I ordered:
    Mill
    Table Extension
    VFD
    CNC conversion kit
    Stand

    The computer is setup, ready to roll with a touchscreen. Power and air are awaiting the machine. All the tools are being ordered as we speak. So in theory, chips should be flying a few weeks after I receive the mill/kit - assuming I don't run into huge hurdles. 99% of my material will be Aluminum, so at least I can just concentrate on that for the start. It should be a fun prototyping toy - I can't wait!

    Thanks again!



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    Just make your calls worth while, remember that your limited to 2,000 free calls !
    bwahahaha just had to couldn't help myself

    Don
    IH v-3 early model owner


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruiser View Post
    Just make your calls worth while, remember that your limited to 2,000 free calls !
    bwahahaha just had to couldn't help myself
    2000 ?!?!?!?!?!?

    I don't even know if that's enough calls to get just the stand setup! Gene is going to have a new phone message, "Welcome to IH CNC. If this is Bryan, please hang up. All others press 1"



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    2000 ?!?!?!?!?!?

    I don't even know if that's enough calls to get just the stand setup! Gene is going to have a new phone message, "Welcome to IH CNC. If this is Bryan, please hang up. All others press 1"



    Oh man! I think the neighbors heard me laughin` on that one!!!!
    :rainfro:



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    From doing some research, it sounds as if the IH CNC kit does not come with a breakout board. Is that correct? I'm planning on using a smoothstepper so I can hook it up via USB. Does anyone have any recommendations for a breakout board if the kit does not come with one?

    Thanks!



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    Quote Originally Posted by sdfoiler View Post
    From doing some research, it sounds as if the IH CNC kit does not come with a breakout board. Is that correct?
    Thanks!

    Yes, as far as I know, and I do have an IH Mill, They do not use a break out board other than a terminal connection board for a place to terminate the wire ends.
    I have tried breakout boards and always had issue with ground faults due to the way that power was applied. If you use the IH system, you can still use the smooth stepper as it hooks up between the parallel connectors. The question is do you need to use the smooth stepper as the two immediate advantages are of course the higher pulse speed which would increase rapids to a totally ridiculous speed and the other would be the use of usb to drive the machine from Mach.
    As a point of view as an IH owner I'd have to say that the added speed is ridiculous as it would make your inevitable crashes extremely spectacular and detrimental to the mechanics, so you would be slowing down the rates anyway. This leaves the USB as the only practical advantage ! You will undoubtedly run into many more points of view but I'd have to wonder how many were honest answers and actually showed some real plus.
    I just took off a Combo Board which was a total Pain In The A$$ and I do mean the $ signs as expense. I have a basic wiring plan that is direct and trouble free no matter what any body else has to offer or say. Add your own preferred quantity of salt to what I have stated here and double that quantity for the coming responses ! No pun intended !

    Don
    IH v-3 early model owner


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    Quote Originally Posted by sdfoiler View Post
    From doing some research, it sounds as if the IH CNC kit does not come with a breakout board. Is that correct? I'm planning on using a smoothstepper so I can hook it up via USB. Does anyone have any recommendations for a breakout board if the kit does not come with one?

    Thanks!
    Arguably, the SmoothStepper does not really require any kind of isolating breakout board, just a means going from the ribbon cables to whatever wiring you use in the machine. A passive breakout board should work just fine. The SmoothStepper has a provision for being powered from a separate power supply, rather than the USB bus itself, so chances of a machine fault damaging your PC (the nominal justification for isolated BOBs) is pretty slim. You may, of course, blow up the SmoothStepper, but it's a lot cheaper than a PC.

    Now, there may be other reasons a real breakout board would be desirable. You may need relays for spindle motor and coolant control. You may need some kind of analog voltage generator for spindle speed control. You may want to run your home/limit switches on 24V, for better noise immunity.

    If you do get a breakout board, make sure it will actually work properly with a SmoothStepper. The one I have did not, and severly limited my rapid speeds. I had to re-bias the opto-couplers to make it work properly.

    FWIW - I don't think I've ever heard anything bad about the PMDX boards.

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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    Ray and Cruiser,

    Thanks for the messages!! Your expertise is greatly appreciated.

    Here's my thought process (if you can call it that).

    I have access to many late model PCs with integrated video. So putting together a machine is not a problem. HOWEVER, adding a video card to them would be a challenge and expensive since they are a small form factor machine. Granted, I MAY not need a stand-alone vid card depending on the PC, but I'd rather not find out later that it's not going to work. It would be CHEAPER to get a smoothstepper and not have to worry about a parallel card or video card.

    Yes, one could argue that I could just find an older machine, but I'd rather not take that approach. If something happens to this machine, I can easily swap it with another newer one at that point. So I'd rather set it up correctly now, and $155 for a smoothstepper seems very reasonable to me to be able to get the video/parallel port out of the equation. I'm not interested in higher rapids... just a simple machine that works. I don't ever see me upgrading to a 4 (or more) axis system, so a simple 3-axis machine with VFD is all I'm trying to get going.

    If I could go the route of a smoothstepper without a breakout board, I'll just do that. And I agree, all the reading I've done on BOB's seem to point to issues with many of them.

    CNC4PC has this for the smoothstepper:
    http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/prod...roducts_id=187



    Here is where I'll show my ignorance (again). I'm getting the VFD motor with the IH machine. How will that integrate with the electronics enclosure? I really wish I could find installation instructions for the IH CNC kit so I could start figuring things out. So, will I NEED a BOB to be able to control the VFD? If so, I'll look into the PMDX or CNC4PC boards.

    I'd rather spend the money now instead of spending weeks trying to debug why weird things keep happening.

    Thanks again guys!
    Bryan



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    the pmdx boards are well thought out and work great. never had a problem except blowing out the fuse.
    Randy



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    Bryan,

    Your VFD will most likely require two relays, and an analog voltage generator to control it. The Homann Designs Digispeed works well, and should give you everything you need:

    http://homanndesigns.com/store/index...3e1130f14d12d9

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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    The Older pc's might not be the way to go ! You would be better off buying a newer pc and not worrying about the parallel ports. Get the vid card, doesn't have to be exotic. There is a parallel port PCI add in card available that works real good, buy two ! I believe the speed control card is part of the kit. Call Gene, Tommy and check on which pci port card they use now and go with it.
    I stated to not bother with the older pc because of this scenario, The code is Math intensive and it is possible to over load some of the older slower pc chips. Also, the older pc's will have a much lower available pulse rate and you will be much happier with a Hot fast chip running the pc. Also Get at least 1 gig of ram, AND THEN !
    Put the mill together Just as Gene and Tommy prescribe ! and Run it that way for a while before you start changing things. You may find yourself satisfied and decide to make chips rather than head aches or deal with the pain in the a$$ (spendy pain at that ) When trying out different boards. They can be troublesome and don't always want to play nice with others ! So, unless your an electrical engineer and only want a new toy to play with "STICK TO THE BASICS" on the other hand if you intend to make chips then, well !

    Don
    IH v-3 early model owner


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    Sorry about high jack your thread sdfoiler

    I am in the same place that sdfoiler is (ie IH mill and v3 conversion). The kit comes with a simple breakout board .

    How important are these breakout board options.

    1. fully opto isolated

    2. safety charge pump This looks like a good safety option. (?)

    The manufacturers talk about isolation and protection of everything. How much do I really need. (???)


    I understand and agree with cruiser's thoughts on keeping it simple and then later on, after the bugs are worked out, adding on.

    I plan on running a computer with 2 (+) gig processor with 1 (+) gig of ram. I will also include a parallel port card.

    I want to include a spindle control. I purchased the VFD option from IH and bought a C6 relay board from CNC4PC.

    I want to include coolant. I purchased a C15 relay board for this.


    Thanks for the help


    Evan



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    Evan,
    You didn't hijack anything, that is referred to as participating ! The comment of fully opto isolated usually refers to a single circuit or circuit family, and is to control voltage spikes and induced currents. If you read about these in other threads you will find a lot of people complaining about Noise. This is usually spikes transfered via a shared ground and It is a common problem. The electrical engineers on board can deal with it and quickly solve it, but I found it to be a plague.
    The addition of the Charge pump safety feature is a good thing for when the system is being powered up but following a simple hierarchy in powering will do the same thing which leaves the possibility of a power loss in one system allowing others to run away as another possible need for charge pump. In the long run you may never need a charge pump so it would be like an insurance policy that you may never need.
    Start off with the KISS principal and give it time. It is always flowery to look at these nice boards and think that it is a good thing and you would be safer with it, BUTT ! as stated before "THEY DON'T ALWAYS LIKE TO PLAY NICE" ! Consider how long IH has been running the system and ask them about what they may deal with for problems. The people complaining are the experimenters that just had to have the additional boards and are looking for answers and work arounds. Read all these links and comments then call Gene or Tommy and ask a few questions ! They will undoubtedly read this and be awaiting your call ! If you want, Evan, since your so close, give me a pm and we can phone chat or get together for a brain storming session !

    Don
    IH v-3 early model owner


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    Evan and sdfoiler, I use a Smoothstepper for my IH and like it well. I bought the "breakout board" for it from CNC4PC. That board isn't about adding opto isolation, it just gives you screw terminals to make hookup easy.

    I've also got the other CNC4PC boards.

    If you're curious, you can follow my conversion here:

    http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCMillCNCHome.html

    You've lots of decisions ot make, and there are lots of opinions here. By all means vector on to whatever you're comfortable with, and whatever you can help with from someone who has done it.

    Like it or not, no matter how simple/complicated or tried and true, there is always some debugging unless you buy a turnkey system. So you'll want to be sure you go with something you understand and can get help with. Hopefully said debugging will be very minimal and amenable to minor changes in wiring or Mach3 settings!

    Cheers,

    BW



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    To you know who, I'm curious about this, you stated you are using a smooth stepper board, the breakout board, and other boards. I would like to know just about how long you have been running your machine to make chips that prove out the applications to not have an affinity for faulting out the limit and e-stop functions. You must have many hours running your machine by now to be able to sell the newbies on these items with your own guarantee's of total reliability in the now totally new and upgraded IH system that these guy's bought. I know for a fact that you keep in touch with Gene and Tommy so you must be totally aware of the degree of growth and maturity of their system. If you detect a bit of facetious ness to my words here I hope you don't become offended. But remind yourself that you could be interfering with their warranties and support availability. If your going to sell these boards then maybe it would be a bit more honest of you to relate some of the troubles and torments that many have endured when trying to incorporate them into their system and give details of the nature of fixing and work arounds available and maybe describe to them just how good the support from manufacturer is when trying to troubleshoot these system integration problems. Not everyone here is an engineer and far fewer are electrical or electronic engineers. I have done some homework on these matters as applied to the IH machine and have found that the NEW IH SYSTEM has grown in leaps and bounds since we bought ours ! Are you going to swear to these guys that these breakout boards are needed and that they gotta have the smooth stepper too ! I know that is not what you have intended, But You are leaving much to be desired, and so maybe do I, when we speak out for or against. But I tell them to follow the new system first ! and I have a pretty good Idea that it is a very strong reliable proven system. And I just can't get over the idea that you are trying to steer them towards modifying before they even get the chance to test and sample the system as Is. What really impresses me about the new IH system, most of all is the plain and simple reason that for the hundreds of turnkeys and kits sold that they are not all here complaining about it and asking for our or your help in fixing ! The only real board I am running on my system is for the spindle speed and I tried some of these boards and I have a collection of them to unload and I have found the only real cure for the limit and e-stop faulting and my system is back to the basics and now I don't have any faults and I am making chips with my machine and the only reoccurring fault is one I can easily find by looking in the mirror then rechecking the code or whatever it was that i was messing with and the most of my problems were listening to do-gooders that were saying ya gotta have and ya just can't do without and this is the greatest since and if ya don't opto a$$ holiate it your skrewd ! I made a complete circle of considerable expense and I am right back where I started with the basic system and it is solid !

    Don
    IH v-3 early model owner


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    Cool

    Oh please Cruiser, quit being so snotty and insecure. I'm sorry you couldn't make your boards work, but that has nothing to do with what I've posted whatsoever.

    If you had actually read my post instead of launching into your defensive diatribe, you would've noticed I didn't recommend or insist on any hardware or design at all. None.

    I simply offered them the opportunity to see what another person had done and responded to questions they raised about the Smoothstepper.

    Just so you know, the IH mill is my third CNC conversion. And the Smoothstepper is my third breakout board, the other two being a GRex and a Campbell board. I did get my boards to work, in other words, and I do have an Engineering degree as you kindly mentioned (but seem so concerned is a bad thing somehow), so I know how to put them together to do what I want them to do. That's all irrelevant and neither one of us has a monopoly on the exact one way to do things because there is no such thing.

    The one thing I do believe in is the need to understand for one's self what's going on and how things work because in the end there will come a time when something doesn't work. It's often at the beginning and always at the end if you use the thing long enough. That's just the nature of these things, and it sure sounds like you followed a similar path yourself.

    People are welcome to follow the path of some "expert" including yourself, but if they don't understand why, and the expert disappears or a problem the expert never saw turns up, that's gonna be tough on them, no matter how simple the approach they took was.

    That just seems like friendly and reasonable advice to anyone who wants to fool around with these machines to me. And it seems much more polite to answer their questions than to slap them down and tell them they can't even dream of running until they've proven they can walk. That's just not the spirit of CNCZone.

    Sincerely,

    Bob W.



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    Hmmmmm.... Somebody seems awfully defensive of IH, and/or awfully hostile towards the SmoothStepper. I wonder why? Both are excellent products.

    I have also been using a SmoothStepper, andmade many garbage cans full of chips, on my CNC knee mill for about four months now, and it has been trouble-free from the start. There have been a few nuisance bugs, which were quickly fixed once pointed out (several were Mach bugs, not really SS bugs). None have been serious. Overall, it does exactly what it claims to do, and does it extremely well.

    Setup took, literally, less than five minutes - Plug in the USB cable, move the PP cables from the PC to the SS, install the drivers, and fire up Mach3. It worked perfectly on the first try, with zero re-configuration. It has allowed me to more than doubled my rapid speeds (from 150 to >350 IPM), and eliminated a number of flaky problems caused by the squirrelly pulse timing coming out of Mach3. Overall, the machine works much better with the SS than it did without it. Granted, I was running on a PC that is well below the Mach3 mininum spec for CPU speed (540MHz vs 1GHz requirement), but SS enabled me to do that, and saved me some money.

    Support from both the SmoothStepper guys and the Mach3 guys has been absolutely first-rate.

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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