SPINDLE MAINT / UPGRADE / MODS !

[Cruiser]

I thought it was time to drop my spindle and re check it for grease and wear and tear. I am glad I did it now as it was on the verge of going dry and worse. After I washed down the parts I decided it was a good time to put in the new AC bearings I had for it and put seals into the bottom and maybe the top as well. If this works out well I will run oil on the bottom bearing and have thoughts of using a tesla pump for getting oil to top bearings if it is even possible. I'm sure I can get it all sealed, but not too sure how to flow the oil with what is available.
This will be a joint thread as I found that Kipper is doing the maintanence on his spindle as well and may post what he is doing and in so doing we should have two angles of possibilities and do some serious modifications.
So stay tuned and we will see what we can come up with.
I have some pics of the parts now and will follow with new pics and some tech pertaining with the Lathe work I will be doing on the spindle and quil etc.
pics blocked i'll try later

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[Cruiser]

I found out the resolution of my camera was too good and had to drop back for them to up load.
First pic shows the parts laid out notice the broken washer, this was the leather seal I made for bottom of quil to shield the bearing and retain grease, it lasted several yrs.
The next pic shows the slot in side of quil that must be plugged, I would prefer to machine an aluminum plug to force in with an o ring, but my spindle is down to parts so . . . . .
last is the bottom end of quil that will be machined for the seal right after I get it (today ?) I'll show the machining of it when it gets done.
I have looked at the top and find that I can machine the spindle and quil to lower the bearing, then fit a spacer between bearing and nut that a seal can ride on. I'll do that after the bottom is done so that I don't have any surprises (hope hope)
Now if only the phone would ring and tell me my seal is waiting !

[Cruiser]

Progression, The first pic is the top bore and what I found was notable. I only show the top bore, see that the back face of bore has been trimmed, the faces both run out from the centerline which would play havoc with the bearings and help to damage them due to uneven pressure. Both bore faces were trimmed and top face was taken in .04" to give allowance for my shield shown in next pic. This shield will create a dam effect for the grease and keep it up against the bearing.
The next pic shows the spindle in and the seal, The seal is much better than the leather shield I had in it. I also decided that going oil was not going to be necessary for bearing life as the facing should make the difference in life span and if oil is lost the destruction would be abrupt.
The last pic shows the assembly locked in and ready to install and run in.
Now for the real news. This quil is really a piece of work. If I had made it, I would have tossed it and started over. I really don't understand how they could make something with runnout all through it.
When dialing it into the lathe four jaw, I started with OD's and trued it in. Then with the ID I had to re do it as it was OFF by too much. With the ID trued, I bored the threads of bottom end for the seal fitment and trimmed the face as mentioned already.
I figured that with what it is that this would be plenty good enough and going over board would be futile. I did not bother checking top bore to bottom bore as there is no fix other than making a new quil. I might consider this option next time and go whole hog.
As of now, I'm done with it other than putting it to use.

[Cruiser]

Yesterday I ran it for a short time with some Grease I thought would work good, Mobil Polyrex EM, It literally burnt black in 5min. So I dropped spindle and washed it out. I put it back into use with the grease I had used before, but, ID is lost ! Don't know what it is but it is a moly grease and works well.
The seal is making a lot of localized heat that can be felt at the end of the spindle but I don't think I'll be worried about this as it should diminish with breakin.
The bearings are running much quieter than they did before and I believe this is due to trimming the pocket face square to spindle. It makes the bearing loading more even as it should have been all along.
I used some locktite on the bearings to help hold them from possible spinning as the fitment is loose and always was. The only problem I had with this is that I used some spray brake clean ( dry cleaning fluid ) as a cleaner and primer and the locktite set up too fast for me and I had to get quite rough with the assy to achieve what I needed for preload.
I did find that the preloading was much closer to +1 this time, again I think it was due to the truing I did. Last time it was more like +3 (notches )
I have no Idea how the back face of the bores got out of plane, but it could easily be why the stock bearings are failing so quickly, even without the iron fine. The AC bearings are working out quite well and I got the cheap ones. I think going to the more expensive bearings in this set-up is a waste of money. In fact, with a wash and truing I'd be prone to say that the stock bearings would last just as long and run just as quiet. It is the contamination and the lack of proper tolerance control that shorten its life expectancy. Actually I think the stock bearings are capable of taking more load, but not the Rpm's when going over 6G's. I'm not sure of the break point, but next time I may well just use stock bearings and save a few bucks. I am not convinced that Ac's have any advantage with this spindle quil set-up.

[ecortech]

Cruiser

What number/dimension is the seal that you used? I think I have the seal number from the box in your photos, but the dimension of the id will not fit tight on my spindle, the od of my spindle where the seal would ride on, is 1.652 or 42mm. My spindle is currently an R8, I have a 30 taper ordered, perhaps the 30 taper is slightly larger. I have one of the newer mills from Machine Tool Warehouse and I am thinking of doing a similar mod to mine.
If your seal continues to create localized heat, a low friction PTFE or similar, may be needed, ultimately a non contact labrinyth type seal would be the best. I am toying with the idea of making a non contact seal for mine.

Ed

[Cruiser]

My spindle is 1.73" at seal and the seal is 1.75" and it works good and will eventually blend to run cool. I don't doubt at all that there will be many differant sizes that come from the chinese. I run the R8 too, have no need for 30 taper and wouldn't want the expense of tooling added on now. The OD of seal was 2.996", after boring there was some thread left which is non issue.